Kentucky's ongoing attempt to end racing in state proceeds..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Traditions? If tradition was important, all the horses wouldn't be getting Lasix now, would they? Surely we can get better than "tradition" and "they don't stick too good". Use both? Why, if both do the same thing, would you pay double? These answers are as lame as the statements from the pro ban side, maybe lamer.

Dude they dont stick very well which means they dont necessarily work very effectively. At Lasixpalooza some research vet from Michigan state who is the foremost researcher into EIPH said that the most effective way to treat it is a combo of lasix and nasal strips. So I figured that i would try to get something out of those wasted 8 hours soooo.....I tried the nasal strip/lasix combination on a horse I had that was a pretty bad bleeder (I bought him for a ham sandwich because he was a pretty good hunter prospect and wanted to see if we could get the bleeding under control before reselling him). Of course the nasal strip fell half off (it was hot and humid), the horse bled after running pretty well and off to the pretty horsey people he went.

The point is that this is hardly an exact science, and for someone who supposedly doesnt care one way or another you make statements that kinda show you do seem to care. If it makes you happy I will admit for all trainers that we only use lasix because it makes our horses run faster, that bleeding is entirely overblown and the other 1000 or so things that are given to horses that everyone ignores have absolutely no effect on performance.

Anything to end this thread and the hundred emails it sends to my yahoo account...

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dude they dont stick very well which means they dont necessarily work very effectively. At Lasixpalooza some research vet from Michigan state who is the foremost researcher into EIPH said that the most effective way to treat it is a combo of lasix and nasal strips. So I figured that i would try to get something out of those wasted 8 hours soooo.....I tried the nasal strip/lasix combination on a horse I had that was a pretty bad bleeder (I bought him for a ham sandwich because he was a pretty good hunter prospect and wanted to see if we could get the bleeding under control before reselling him). Of course the nasal strip fell half off (it was hot and humid), the horse bled after running pretty well and off to the pretty horsey people he went.

The point is that this is hardly an exact science, and for someone who supposedly doesnt care one way or another you make statements that kinda show you do seem to care. If it makes you happy I will admit for all trainers that we only use lasix because it makes our horses run faster, that bleeding is entirely overblown and the other 1000 or so things that are given to horses that everyone ignores have absolutely no effect on performance.

Anything to end this thread and the hundred emails it sends to my yahoo account...

Just playing devil's advocate. When the strips were popular, I don't remember seeing a bunch flopping in the wind, do you? Surely they could improve that part of it if the problem was bad.

Why aren't the "other things" caught or ratted out? I just don't get it. I want them gone too, but unless other trainers step up and talk, it isn't going to happen. Somebody on the backstretch has to know.

At least this way you get some email!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Just playing devil's advocate. When the strips were popular, I don't remember seeing a bunch flopping in the wind, do you? Surely they could improve that part of it if the problem was bad.

Why aren't the "other things" caught or ratted out? I just don't get it. I want them gone too, but unless other trainers step up and talk, it isn't going to happen. Somebody on the backstretch has to know.

At least this way you get some email!

I never saw where they worked very well for anything. Like most fads people tried them for awhile and didn't see much difference in anything really. Now they kind of act as a negative sign especially if you are thinking of claiming something with a nasal strip figuring it either bleeds a lot or has a bad airway.

The problem with other trainers "ratting out" other trainers is that without something short of a picture of someone actually giving a horse a shot in the neck or milkshaking a horse it is mostly dismissed as jealousy. Which sometimes it probably is. Perhaps I havent been persistent enough in trying to explain that the "authorities" in most jurisdictions are woefully inept, tragically underfunded or both. At the risk of starting another tangent if the ivory tower crowd focued their energies towards racings farce of a police force the game might actually get a little "cleaner". Instead they worry only about that which they know which in itself is telling.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I never saw where they worked very well for anything. Like most fads people tried them for awhile and didn't see much difference in anything really. Now they kind of act as a negative sign especially if you are thinking of claiming something with a nasal strip figuring it either bleeds a lot or has a bad airway.

The problem with other trainers "ratting out" other trainers is that without something short of a picture of someone actually giving a horse a shot in the neck or milkshaking a horse it is mostly dismissed as jealousy. Which sometimes it probably is. Perhaps I havent been persistent enough in trying to explain that the "authorities" in most jurisdictions are woefully inept, tragically underfunded or both. At the risk of starting another tangent if the ivory tower crowd focued their energies towards racings farce of a police force the game might actually get a little "cleaner". Instead they worry only about that which they know which in itself is telling.

I guess I'll just never get that. If anyone had any real evidence and went to the press it would be reported. I'm not talking about the phony racing press that is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the elite, I'm talking the real press that would eat something like this up.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I guess I'll just never get that. If anyone had any real evidence and went to the press it would be reported. I'm not talking about the phony racing press that is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the elite, I'm talking the real press that would eat something like this up.

The trick is coming up with "real evidence". It isn't like trainers have the ability to do a sting operation on the guy in the next barn. They have these 800 numbers at some tracks to call in anyonomous tips but I have never heard of anything ever coming from those. There was a top trainer at Calder that was tossed off (for a while at least) because a groom he had stiffed on a stakes check actually took a picture of him giving a horse a shot. The irony is the groom just wanted to collect his money, he wasnt looking to be a racetrack cop. But even then the track was the one who took action, not the racing commission.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The trick is coming up with "real evidence". It isn't like trainers have the ability to do a sting operation on the guy in the next barn. They have these 800 numbers at some tracks to call in anyonomous tips but I have never heard of anything ever coming from those. There was a top trainer at Calder that was tossed off (for a while at least) because a groom he had stiffed on a stakes check actually took a picture of him giving a horse a shot. The irony is the groom just wanted to collect his money, he wasnt looking to be a racetrack cop. But even then the track was the one who took action, not the racing commission.

It just seems there would be a lot more disgruntled employees, and it isn't like backstretch workers don't change barns a lot. I'm with you, I have no doubt there is a lot of cheating going on, I'm just mystified how it remains hidden for so long.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It just seems there would be a lot more disgruntled employees, and it isn't like backstretch workers don't change barns a lot. I'm with you, I have no doubt there is a lot of cheating going on, I'm just mystified how it remains hidden for so long.

probably because of money. only so much probably budgeted for r & d on drug detection.
then there's just how much can you do to someone if they do get caught. look at the appeals processes and the like.
and you have repeat offenders who get more and better horses after a suspension than they did before. you'd have to think if owners were more inclined to try to avoid cheaters they'd just naturally get winnowed out. no clients, no horses, no job. but no, they get people knocking down their doors.
people talk about changing it, but the only attempt i've seen is what's brought about this thread. seems like there'd be other things to tackle than a drug that may or may not improve a horse, that apparently no longer is a masking drug, and actually has medical benefits.
but, lasix is the bad guy and people like biancone, mullins, dutrow, asmussen are doing fine, if not increasing their numbers of horses.