Kentucky's ongoing attempt to end racing in state proceeds..

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

For the trainers that don't care for them, what is their reason for not liking them?

I'm sure that plenty of trainers would rather use lasix because they think lasix is a performance-enhancer. I'm not just guessing that. I know for a fact that many trainers think lasix is a performance-enhancer because many have told me that.

I have another question for you. As we all know, some horses get small doses of lasix while other horses (usually known bleeders) get much bigger doses. Do you think there would be any downside to giving all horses a big dose of lasix?

Wasting lasix.

The dose that must be given is within the published parameters of efficacy for the drug, usually (depending upon state) 150-200mg up to 500mg, and that legally allowed dose covers dosing a variety of horses by weight at 0.5 - 1.0 mg/kg, which is the lowest established efficacious dose for lasix (cardiac patients in fulminant pulmonary edema will get 4-6 mg/kg)

I don't know why some trainers don't like FLAIRS. Have to ask them.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Wasting lasix.

The dose that must be given is within the published parameters of efficacy for the drug, usually (depending upon state) 150-200mg up to 500mg, and that legally allowed dose covers dosing a variety of horses by weight at 0.5 - 1.0 mg/kg, which is the lowest established efficacious dose for lasix (cardiac patients in fulminant pulmonary edema will get 4-6 mg/kg)

I don't know why some trainers don't like FLAIRS. Have to ask them.

I think they use a 10 point scale in talking about how big a dose a horse is going to get. A bad bleeder would get a 10 point dose, meaning that the bigger dose you get, the less chance there is that you will bleed. If that is the case, why wouldn't trainers give all their horses a 10 point dose, if there was no downside?

There obviously is downside. The bigger dose you give them, the more dehydrated they get. In addition, if you give them the biggest dose allowable, it may make the horse too dull. Several trainers have told me that lasix can dull a horse. Do you agree with that?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think they use a 10 point scale in talking about how big a dose a horse is going to get. A bad bleeder would get a 10 point dose, meaning that the bigger dose you get, the less chance there is that you will bleed. If that is the case, why wouldn't trainers give all their horses a 10 point dose, if there was no downside?

There obviously is downside. The bigger dose you give them, the more dehydrated they get. In addition, if you give them the biggest dose allowable, it may make the horse too dull. Several trainers have told me that lasix can dull a horse. Do you agree with that?

The legal dose limit at 40mg/cc is 3-4cc up to 10cc. If you have an exceptionally little 850-900 pound horse (most are 1000-1100 pounds) and fill it up with 10cc of lasix, that's still only 1mg/kg body weight.

Which will not dehydrate a horse more than 0.5-1.5% of it's body weight (not clinically detectable and easily replaceable by a few buckets of water), and is far lower than the dose used in cardiac patients.

If a trainer is withholding water for an exceptionally long time, or really messing with electrolytes (I am not talking good normal electrolyte replacement, or normal water withholding), that can potentiate the effects of lasix, because one is not supposed to do that and give lasix.

Individual animals can respond differently, too - we don't know how great each animals own kidneys are. You have to be careful giving lasix to horses with annhydrosis (non-sweaters), etc. If it's a really hot day, the horse is going to dehydrate standing in it's stall sweating if it doesn't drink enough, lasix or not.

The dose that racehorses get is really on the low end of the furosemide dosage range, even at 10cc for a tiny horse.