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#1
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Here's a cross section of lung (viewing it from the horses left side, the front of the horse is on the left) showing where bleeding occurs, the top (dorsal) back (caudal) part of the lung. We only detect blood when it comes out of the lungs up into the trachea. The trachea isn't shown here, it would be to the left of the lungs: Here's a horse bleeding so bad blood is bubbling out of the lungs, up the trachea, and out the nose. Only 1 out of 20 will bleed so badly this is seen: Here's a horse with a little blood in the trachea via bronchoscopy: ![]()
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts |
#2
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![]() So the majority of horses treated with lasix do not bleed?
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#3
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![]() The majority have their previously documented level of bleeding markedly decreased or gone, as evidenced by bronchoscopy clinically and BAL/TTW in research. Lasix does not work in all horses, some are unaffected.
The origins and causes of EIPH are thought to be multifactorial. In the 1990's I worked on the research that first measured actual cardiopulmonary intravascular pressures in horses while galloping at racing speed both on and off lasix. Lasix decreases the exercise-induced increase in cardiac and pulmonary pressures. High blood pressure rupturing fragile capillaries in the lung has always been one suspected cause of EIPH. Chronic airway inflammation predisposing to capillary failure is another. I'd love to study the lungs of horses that live year-round at Churchill Downs, bordered by highways and under airport plane exhaust. Another is the physical pounding, and physics: the sheer forces created within the lung tissue as a horse gallops a long time over firm ground carrying weight. Another is the huge variance in intrapulmonary airway pressures, upper vs lower, during massive air intake of exercise - why the Flair nasal strips which hold the upper airway open decrease EIPH as much as lasix in some horses.
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts |
#4
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I cannot consider lasix a performance enhancer any more than preventative inhaler asthma meds are for a running athlete who happens to have asthma. Lasix enables a horse to run to their peak, by helping prevent the development of a medical condition that will inhibit running ability by suffocating the horse in it's own blood to a lesser or greater degree.
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts |
#5
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![]() But doesn't lasix have other systemic effects besides reducing the severity of bleeding that may improve performance? At the same time, does lung bleeding necessarily preclude a horse from performing competitively?
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#6
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Lasix is the same "water pill" people take who have cardiac problems. Used in a one-time prerace injection, it won't cause a massive weight loss, it doesn't cause massive dehydration, it doesn't cause massive electrolyte problems (unless a trainer is really screwing with stuff by also spiking electrolytes in an excessive manner, or withholding water from the horse for 24 hours, etc) Its funny - watching Australian racing, the temps there have been hot lately, and horses are literally wringing water off their bodies by the time they get to the post. We don't see that on horses using lasix to that extent (sweating is cooling) - but I'll bet those horses lose 20-30 pounds in water weight, too, before a race. Quote:
Depends upon the amount of stuff down in your smallest airways and alveolar sacs, right?
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts |
#7
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Horses are still bleeding despite the use of lasix, so it's not necessarily a forgone conclusion that lasix is the definitive treatment for bleeding. In fact, in the AVMA link you provided, the organization supported the use of lasix only in the "absence of a more effective treatment...". Hardly a ringing endorsment. Don't many believe that horses are able to continue to perform even with minor injuries of all types? In fact, what percentage of racehorses, or any type of athlete, are considered to be completely "sound"? As to the protection of the betting public, does lasix administration guarantee that a horse is being given ample opportunity to run to its best? Don't most jurisdictions allow for a variable dose lasix to be administered on raceday. Who's to stop the connections of a known bleeder (but probably unknown to the public), controlled normally with the maximum allowable amount of lasix, to suddenly drop the dose to the minimum? Would it be simpler and beneficial for the betting public's interest (and not necessarily the horse's health) to prevent this from the outset, by not allowing a licensed veterinarian in the stall on raceday with a needle and syringe and perhaps by banning horses from racing that bleed visibily from the nose? |
#8
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Many of the European horses that don't need it ship for the BC and they get it anyway. Why is that? European trainers seem to think it is a performance enhancer. Are they just uneducated? The ones that don't get it rarely run to their odds. Just coincidence? |
#9
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![]() Anyone can poke around at www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Use EIPH and race horse as your search terms I found these with EIPH furosemide speed as the search terms Quote:
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts |
#10
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln |
#11
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![]() And isn't it the crux of the issue? Was Lasix originally legalized as a preventative measure for non-bleeders? Of course not, it was used to try to cure those that had bled.
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#12
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#13
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![]() Except, of course, that it is still a drug. You can't convince me that every horse needs a drug to run. The reason every horse gets is because trainers also believe it is a performance enhancer. I've heard many say as much.
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#14
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I would have to think the horses would be less likely to bleed if their lungs weren't filled with all the dust that they breathe in all day in the barn area. At Oaklawn Park they have a lot of grass in the barn areas. I would have to think that is much better than all that dirt and dust. |
#15
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Most non-racing barns feed hay on the ground for that reason. Tracks determine if a trainer can use straw (can have alot of molds) or shavings to bed. Off track some people use newspaper or simply rubber mats for bedding allergic horses. Yeah, horses inhaling all that dust from gravel drives and dirt on the track isn't as good as not doing it. Those pavers are high dollar items. Hey - for a mere less than 2 million, you can purchase this place next to the TB Training Center in Lexington, and have all your horses out getting grass time daily! http://www.biedermanbrokerage.com/ (third property down on Paris Pike)
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts |