Good debut sires

[Calzone Lord]

West Acre was an unraced son of Forty Niner. Hard for an unraced horse to make it as a sire.

Here is Forty Niner's best son in terms of stallion success... with debuters.

Distorted Humor:

2011: 55-7-5-6 (13% wins) 1.26 ROI

* One of the 2nd's was at 60/1 odds. Winners included sky-high speed figures from Maclean's Music and Machen.

2010: 63-14-5-10 (22% wins) 2.76 ROI
2009: 83-18-13-8 (22% wins) 3.23 ROI
2008: 73-10-7-6 (14% wins) 2.00 ROI (2nd at 61/1 odds at CD)
2007: 93-13-16-9 (14% wins) 1.59 ROI (five 2nd's at double digit odds)

2002-to-2005: 24-for-124 (19% wins) $17.24 avg win mutual.

[Calzone Lord]

Here's a sire who won the Tyro Stakes going 5.5 furlongs at age two -- he's only had two crops to race so far, and is just killing them.

Deputy Storm (first-time starters)

2011: 2-for-12 (17% Wins) $9.53 ROI (Winners were 12/1 and 43/1)
2010: 2-for-11 (18% wins) $3.76 ROI


Deputy Storm (ALL STARTERS)

2011: 27-for-125 (22% wins) 5.66 ROI
2010: 10-for-49 (20% wins) 2.95 ROI

His offspring come running, win races, and have been very under-valued in the betting it would seem.

[hockey2315]

Did these a while back. . . not all the way through the 2011.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

West Acre was an unraced son of Forty Niner. Hard for an unraced horse to make it as a sire.

Here is Forty Niner's best son in terms of stallion success... with debuters.

Distorted Humor:

2011: 55-7-5-6 (13% wins) 1.26 ROI

* One of the 2nd's was at 60/1 odds. Winners included sky-high speed figures from Maclean's Music and Machen.

2010: 63-14-5-10 (22% wins) 2.76 ROI
2009: 83-18-13-8 (22% wins) 3.23 ROI
2008: 73-10-7-6 (14% wins) 2.00 ROI (2nd at 61/1 odds at CD)
2007: 93-13-16-9 (14% wins) 1.59 ROI (five 2nd's at double digit odds)

2002-to-2005: 24-for-124 (19% wins) $17.24 avg win mutual.

I didn't realize DH had such a mediocre year as a debut sire.
I have got where I really look for them. Especially with trainers with low first out win%, where I know they will be a price.
I did cash nicely on Power World at CD for Neil Howard.
He broke dead last by a lot, passed them all going 5f and paid $52.

[Dahoss]

Good stuff guys. Seems like I see a lot of Wildcat Heir firsters winning. Am I just making that up or is he a pretty good sire of firsters?

[Calzone Lord]

He had a great first year -- so good win percentage wise that it probably hurt his value a little.

The past two years, he's had quite a few more 2nd's than wins.


Wildcat Heir:

2011: 64-4-10-8 (6% wins) 1.07 ROI (three 2nd's at double digits odds)
2010: 80-12-13-8 (15% wins) 1.83 ROI
2009: 60-17-11-7 (28% wins) 2.36 ROI

[Calzone Lord]

Dehere was one of my favorte debut sires before he got deported. Since coming back to America, he's starting to do well again.

Last year, Dehere's debuters won 9-of-44 (20% wins) with a $3.05 ROI.

However, Dehere is killing the world as a broodmare sire of 1st-time starters:

2011: 69-15-5-8 (22% wins) 3.31 ROI

* 2nd place finishers at 10/1 and 17/1. 3rd place finishers at 10/1, 14/1, 43/1 and 54/1 odds!

2010: 61-11-4-4 (18% wins) 4.34 ROI
2009: 56-10-4-8 (18% wins) 2.46 ROI (28/1 Zito debuter 2nd)
2008: 63-14-7-9 (22% wins) 2.50 ROI
2007: 70-13-8-10 (19% wins) 2.50 ROI

* in 2007 alone, 2nd place finishes at 13/1, 21/1, 27/1, and 37/1 odds. 3rd place finishes at 12/1, 16/1, 30/1, and 46/1 odds!!


Freaking amazing. Every single year he had a massive profit from a sample size of at least 56 different horses.

[Alabama Stakes]

thanks for the awesome info....what do you know about Old Fashioned so far as a sire ?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

what do you know about Old Fashioned so far as a sire ?

Nothing yet.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Dehere was one of my favorte debut sires before he got deported. Since coming back to America, he's starting to do well again.

I think Dehere got shipped out again. He went to Turkey with Lion Heart.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I think Dehere got shipped out again. He went to Turkey with Lion Heart.

Ouch.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Dehere was one of my favorte debut sires before he got deported. Since coming back to America, he's starting to do well again.

Last year, Dehere's debuters won 9-of-44 (20% wins) with a $3.05 ROI.

However, Dehere is killing the world as a broodmare sire of 1st-time starters:

2011: 69-15-5-8 (22% wins) 3.31 ROI

* 2nd place finishers at 10/1 and 17/1. 3rd place finishers at 10/1, 14/1, 43/1 and 54/1 odds!

2010: 61-11-4-4 (18% wins) 4.34 ROI
2009: 56-10-4-8 (18% wins) 2.46 ROI (28/1 Zito debuter 2nd)
2008: 63-14-7-9 (22% wins) 2.50 ROI
2007: 70-13-8-10 (19% wins) 2.50 ROI

* in 2007 alone, 2nd place finishes at 13/1, 21/1, 27/1, and 37/1 odds. 3rd place finishes at 12/1, 16/1, 30/1, and 46/1 odds!!


Freaking amazing. Every single year he had a massive profit from a sample size of at least 56 different horses.

Dehere has really been at it again in 2012.

As a sire, he just had a debuter win by 2+ lengths at Oaklawn and pay $132.80 to win last month.

http://www1.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorse...20315&raceNo=7


As a broodmare sire, this year he's 8-2-1-1 (25% wins) $5.05 ROI. His 2nd place finisher was 34/1 odds. One of the winners paid $31.60 and the other was Greydar (100 Beyer on debut at the distance of a mile just a few weeks ago and $8.80 payoff)


Here are Dehere's stats with debuters over a 3-year span from 1999 to 2002 right as he got deported...



34-for-151 (22% winners) and average win mutual of $18.76 !!!


It's really remarkable stuff. His offspring must really have a way of fooling a lot of trainers in the morning.

[Alabama Stakes]

still remember him (Dehere ) winning at Saratoga with a breathtaking late run as a 2 year old. He just gobbled ground. Might even have had Eddie Maple riding him.