Monmouth situation increasingly dire..

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The thing is though Freddy it wasnt the states money anyway. The money came from a deal between Atlantic city casinos and the track. Monmouth/horseracing doesnt lose money for the state. The NJSEA loses money but it is really has virtually no usefulness at this point anyway

It was the last of the casino supplement and I am ok with the Casino's pulling that off the table. Atlantic City is totally screwed. You have to understand that AC grew a huge infrastructure when the US was devoid of gambling. Now the country is loaded with gambling and the State does have to deal with ten of thousands of jobs that need some consideration.

The key is not the money the casinos were giving the tracks, the key was reinventing a sustainable model for an industry. IMO if the State invested in racing for 5 years at MP and atificially supported purses with seed money the product could have been groomed in time to be self sustaining and ultimately OK for the horseman, bettors and the State.

Government is suppose to invest in things which can spur growth. having a reasonably healthy horse business in NJ that is sustainable is worthy of investment. Just busting a nut of 30 million in a summer was silly. Yet what that 30 mil showed us is that big purses with big fields is a product people willingly wager on. As for 80k allowance races that still had 6 horses well that is a function of horse flesh and too many of the same horses with to few a trainer which over 5 years could have rectified itself with some work.

With NYRA gettng slot revenue will see if they are prudent enough to push for less dates, of course we all realize that what NYRA wants to do isnt always what the idiots who control them think they should do? Let's hope they try like heck to do the right thing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

It was the last of the casino supplement and I am ok with the Casino's pulling that off the table. Atlantic City is totally screwed. You have to understand that AC grew a huge infrastructure when the US was devoid of gambling. Now the country is loaded with gambling and the State does have to deal with ten of thousands of jobs that need some consideration.

The key is not the money the casinos were giving the tracks, the key was reinventing a sustainable model for an industry. IMO if the State invested in racing for 5 years at MP and atificially supported purses with seed money the product could have been groomed in time to be self sustaining and ultimately OK for the horseman, bettors and the State.

Government is suppose to invest in things which can spur growth. having a reasonably healthy horse business in NJ that is sustainable is worthy of investment. Just busting a nut of 30 million in a summer was silly. Yet what that 30 mil showed us is that big purses with big fields is a product people willingly wager on. As for 80k allowance races that still had 6 horses well that is a function of horse flesh and too many of the same horses with to few a trainer which over 5 years could have rectified itself with some work.

With NYRA gettng slot revenue will see if they are prudent enough to push for less dates, of course we all realize that what NYRA wants to do isnt always what the idiots who control them think they should do? Let's hope they try like heck to do the right thing.

I hve no problem with the casino wanting to end the payments. However the reason that they were making them is still unresolved and a rational idea would be to form some sort of partnership to construct a casino at the Meadowlands that would help everyone. Of course AC doesnt want to do this because they are too greedy to share the profits, The Gov doesnt want to do this because he sways the way the casinos wind blows (obviously not an easy thing to accomplish considering his bulk) and lets face it the 1st 2 parties would rather bankrupt the "competition" before partnering with them.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hve no problem with the casino wanting to end the payments. However the reason that they were making them is still unresolved and a rational idea would be to form some sort of partnership to construct a casino at the Meadowlands that would help everyone. Of course AC doesnt want to do this because they are too greedy to share the profits, The Gov doesnt want to do this because he sways the way the casinos wind blows (obviously not an easy thing to accomplish considering his bulk) and lets face it the 1st 2 parties would rather bankrupt the "competition" before partnering with them.

As I understand it, the subsidies by the casinos were agreed to in exchange for the State not allowing casinos elsewhere in the State, partiuclarly the Meadowlands, which would compete with Atlantic City. Now that AC is really in the sh!tter and has competition from everywhere surrounding it, Delaware, Pennsylvania and New York, they don't want to pay the subsidy yet AC still wants no competition within the State of New Jersey.

The casinos are obviously in the politicians pockets (and this is not limited to one party), yet I'm not sure why NJ government would not want to allow the racetracks to open casinos to subsidize both the horse racing industry (so they can at least compete with their neighbors) and raise valuable tax money for the politicians to spend. Lord knows that politicians in the Northeast can NEVER spend enough money.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pointman

As I understand it, the subsidies by the casinos were agreed to in exchange for the State not allowing casinos elsewhere in the State, partiuclarly the Meadowlands, which would compete with Atlantic City. Now that AC is really in the sh!tter and has competition from everywhere surrounding it, Delaware, Pennsylvania and New York, they don't want to pay the subsidy yet AC still wants no competition within the State of New Jersey.

The casinos are obviously in the politicians pockets (and this is not limited to one party), yet I'm not sure why NJ government would not want to allow the racetracks to open casinos to subsidize both the horse racing industry (so they can at least compete with their neighbors) and raise valuable tax money for the politicians to spend. Lord knows that politicians in the Northeast can NEVER spend enough money.

Because they can't make enough money for themselves if they have to split it with millionaire horse owners.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Because they can't make enough money for themselves if they have to split it with millionaire horse owners.

Therein lies the horseman's problem. The AC casinos (Donald Trump in particular) are a large reason why the Aqueduct casino took 10 years to ultimately get the full go ahead. It is a shame that horseman are being left in the cold since they cannot line the politicians pockets like the casinos can.

[richard burch]

PENNSYLVANIA SURPASSES ATLANTIC CITY FOR FIRST TIME IN MONTHLY CASINO REVENUE.


http://sboanj.com/index.asp?Key=2553

great job christie! thanks for pissing away the tax money you saved from the horse racing industry "extortionists" and dumping into the shithole that is a.c.



i believe this will only help to get slots in the tracks in n.j. just be patient. the fat man just hasn't recieved his goody bag yet.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by richard burch

PENNSYLVANIA SURPASSES ATLANTIC CITY FOR FIRST TIME IN MONTHLY CASINO REVENUE.


http://sboanj.com/index.asp?Key=2553

great job christie! thanks for pissing away the tax money you saved from the horse racing industry "extortionists" and dumping into the shithole that is a.c.



i believe this will only help to get slots in the tracks in n.j. just be patient. the fat man just hasn't recieved his goody bag yet.

What would you do regarding Atlantic City if you were the governor? Keep in mind the amount of jobs that are involved with the hotels/casinos.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hve no problem with the casino wanting to end the payments. However the reason that they were making them is still unresolved and a rational idea would be to form some sort of partnership to construct a casino at the Meadowlands that would help everyone. Of course AC doesnt want to do this because they are too greedy to share the profits, The Gov doesnt want to do this because he sways the way the casinos wind blows (obviously not an easy thing to accomplish considering his bulk) and lets face it the 1st 2 parties would rather bankrupt the "competition" before partnering with them.

Another casino isnt the answer..its just another place to rob people.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Another casino isnt the answer..its just another place to rob people.

While you are right about this, other than NJ pumping $30 million year for the next 4 or 5 years to sustain the successful model used for 1 year until the purses could support such a meet going forward, how can NJ horse racing attempt to compete with New York, Delaware and Pennsylvania?

[freddymo]

[quote=pointman;826981]While you are right about this, other than NJ pumping $30 million year for the next 4 or 5 years to sustain the successful model used for 1 year until the purses could support such a meet going forward, how can NJ horse racing attempt to compete with New York, Delaware and Pennsylvania?[/QUOTE


Save NY which is the mecca of racing who cares about Pa/Delaware racing. the horses suck and the handles are a joke. Building another casino is silly. You have to think outside the box the State should recogize that investing BS (100 mil/5 years) money into the sport COULD have a lot of real value long term. Build a small cottage horse business that is attractive or at least sustainable for 12-16 week a year. You have to invest and seed an industry its what governmen is suppose to do.

[richard burch]

in the end you will see a few less casinos in a.c. and a casino in the meadowlands and maybe monmouth.

i'm not good picking horses but that is a lock.

[richard burch]

in the end you will see a few less casinos in a.c. and a casino in the meadowlands and maybe monmouth.

i'm not good picking horses but that is a lock.[/QUOTE]

this just in (as predicted)

Under terms of the lease, Gural agreed to build a new, $70 million grandstand on the opposite side of the current grandstand, as well as 1,500 parking spaces at the site of the current barns on the backstretch.

Gural would also have a right to conduct slot machine operations or other new gaming at the track, depending on legislative approval.

love it.

http://sboanj.com/index.asp?Key=2571

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Another casino isnt the answer..its just another place to rob people.

Of course it is the answer. You need to have a casino where the people are and the people aren't in AC anymore. If the tracks are a partner on the thing and are allowed to do things the right way (obviously no guarantee of this) then the thing could eventually thrive. But the state wants to take from racing not give and realistically there is no chance that a state handout would be used any differently than it is now. The can would just be kicked down the road again.