Extending the Payroll Tax Cut

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

to right a wrong and no I don't agree

You know because almost half of what the top quarter pays comes from the top 1% (36.7% of all personal income tax paid) and while collectively 1%ers Adjusted Gross Income represents 16.9% of all income they are paying 37% of all collected personal income taxes. Look, no one here including me will likely ever meet much more be one of the 1,379,000 people filing returns that make up the 1% yet it doesn't make it right to covet even more of their money. They're doing quite enough as is. IMO and deserve a big THANK YOU rather than a payment due notice

The following chart is from 2006 (it's worse now). Please tell me how much money one has to earn to be in the bottom 90-95% of American wage earners.

[Riot]

Winner take all: see the chart on the right? See the lines going down on the right? That's your "real income" over the past 30+ years (if you are not a millionaire or better)





http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...ca-chart-graph

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

The following chart is from 2006 (it's worse now). Please tell me how much money one has to earn to be in the bottom 90-95% of American wage earners.

fortunately we apparantly have come a long way as according to 2009 IRS data the bottom 90% includes filings for people who make about $120K and less. BTW a full 30.7% of returns filed were for between $50K and $200K (Middle Class)

Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saaz drawings maybe should be taken with a grain of salt.

"Table 1.1 Selected Income and Tax Items, by Size and Accumulated Size of
Adjusted Gross Income, Tax Year 2009"
(All figures are estimates based on samples—money amounts are in thousands of dollars except as indicated)
"Size and accumulated size
of adjusted gross income" All returns Taxable returns
"Number
of
returns" "Percent
of total" "Adjusted gross
income less deficit" "Number
of
returns" "Percent
of total" "Adjusted gross
income less deficit" Taxable income Income tax after credits Total income tax
"Number of
returns" Amount "Percent of
total" "Number of
returns" Amount "Percent of
total" Amount Percent of "Average
total income
tax (dollars)"
Amount "Percent
of total" "Average
(dollars)" Amount "Percent
of total" Total "Taxable
income" "Adjusted gross
income less deficit"

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (18) (19) (20)
Size of Adjusted Gross Income
All returns 140,494,127 100.0 7,626,430,723 100.0 54,283 81,890,189 100.0 6,777,684,912 100.0 81,865,180 4,861,134,463 100.0 81,890,189 865,948,271 100.0 865,948,695 100.0 17.8 12.8 10,575
No adjusted gross income 2,511,925 1.8 -198,958,452 [1] -79,206 3,820 [2] -5,022,618 [1] 0 0 [1] 3,820 85,376 [2] 85,376 [2] [1] [1] 22,350
$1 under $5,000 10,447,635 7.4 27,218,608 0.4 2,605 306,587 0.4 830,784 [2] 305,868 338,359 [2] 306,587 40,278 [2] 40,278 [2] 11.9 4.8 131
$5,000 under $10,000 12,220,335 8.7 92,407,278 1.2 7,562 1,899,332 2.3 14,394,215 0.2 1,899,255 3,721,348 0.1 1,899,332 379,851 [2] 379,851 [2] 10.2 2.6 200
$10,000 under $15,000 12,444,512 8.9 155,465,805 2.0 12,493 2,883,906 3.5 37,631,534 0.6 2,883,614 12,407,258 0.3 2,883,906 848,075 0.1 848,075 0.1 6.8 2.3 294
$15,000 under $20,000 11,400,228 8.1 199,017,560 2.6 17,457 4,868,050 5.9 85,257,126 1.3 4,867,025 38,082,778 0.8 4,868,050 2,516,274 0.3 2,516,274 0.3 6.6 3.0 517
$20,000 under $25,000 10,033,887 7.1 225,167,737 3.0 22,441 4,639,085 5.7 104,534,890 1.5 4,636,559 53,814,808 1.1 4,639,085 4,669,410 0.5 4,669,410 0.5 8.7 4.5 1,007
$25,000 under $30,000 8,662,392 6.2 237,994,230 3.1 27,474 4,603,763 5.6 126,758,904 1.9 4,603,705 70,403,722 1.4 4,603,763 6,827,564 0.8 6,827,564 0.8 9.7 5.4 1,483
$30,000 under $40,000 14,371,647 10.2 499,879,773 6.6 34,782 9,589,845 11.7 334,967,281 4.9 9,587,862 202,334,691 4.2 9,589,845 20,151,883 2.3 20,151,883 2.3 10.0 6.0 2,101
$40,000 under $50,000 10,796,412 7.7 483,088,798 6.3 44,745 8,381,017 10.2 375,777,732 5.5 8,380,653 238,763,777 4.9 8,381,017 25,404,274 2.9 25,404,305 2.9 10.6 6.8 3,031
$50,000 under $75,000 18,694,893 13.3 1,149,068,817 15.1 61,464 16,449,394 20.1 1,015,872,390 15.0 16,448,878 669,393,075 13.8 16,449,394 77,962,073 9.0 77,962,073 9.0 11.6 7.7 4,740
$75,000 under $100,000 11,463,725 8.2 990,337,913 13.0 86,389 10,987,101 13.4 950,450,965 14.0 10,983,153 652,794,095 13.4 10,987,101 80,492,622 9.3 80,492,622 9.3 12.3 8.5 7,326
$100,000 under $200,000 13,522,048 9.6 1,801,446,897 23.6 133,223 13,374,553 16.3 1,783,386,440 26.3 13,370,297 1,299,639,179 26.7 13,374,553 212,290,589 24.5 212,290,589 24.5 16.3 11.9 15,873
$200,000 under $500,000 3,195,039 2.3 905,347,402 11.9 283,360 3,178,420 3.9 900,644,158 13.3 3,175,119 716,372,061 14.7 3,178,420 176,322,148 20.4 176,322,148 20.4 24.6 19.6 55,475
$500,000 under $1,000,000 492,568 0.4 332,037,478 4.4 674,095 489,904 0.6 330,211,356 4.9 488,542 279,531,278 5.8 489,904 80,458,186 9.3 80,458,186 9.3 28.8 24.4 164,233
$1,000,000 under $1,500,000 108,096 0.1 130,149,237 1.7 1,204,015 107,416 0.1 129,322,909 1.9 107,069 111,233,270 2.3 107,416 32,755,871 3.8 32,755,871 3.8 29.4 25.3 304,944
$1,500,000 under $2,000,000 44,273 [2] 76,148,200 1.0 1,719,969 44,015 0.1 75,707,933 1.1 43,859 65,463,554 1.3 44,015 19,393,235 2.2 19,393,235 2.2 29.6 25.6 440,605
$2,000,000 under $5,000,000 61,918 [2] 182,986,391 2.4 2,955,302 61,535 0.1 181,799,852 2.7 61,354 158,056,386 3.3 61,535 46,943,489 5.4 46,943,630 5.4 29.7 25.8 762,877
$5,000,000 under $10,000,000 14,322 [2] 97,493,167 1.3 6,807,231 14,236 [2] 96,926,824 1.4 14,187 84,462,502 1.7 14,236 24,617,005 2.8 24,617,005 2.8 29.1 25.4 1,729,208
$10,000,000 or more 8,274 [2] 240,133,885 3.1 29,022,708 8,211 [2] 238,232,237 3.5 8,180 204,322,325 4.2 8,211 53,790,072 6.2 53,790,324 6.2 26.3 22.6 6,551,008
Accumulated from Smallest Size of Adjusted Gross Income
No adjusted gross income 2,511,925 1.8 -198,958,452 [1] -79,206 3,820 [2] -5,022,618 [1] 0 0 [1] 3,820 85,376 [2] 85,376 [2] [1] [1] 22,350
$1 under $5,000 10,447,635 7.4 27,218,608 0.4 2,605 306,587 0.4 830,784 [2] 305,868 338,359 [2] 306,587 40,278 [2] 40,278 [2] 11.9 4.8 131

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

fortunately we apparantly have come a long way

No. Income inequality has not improved since 2009 as you profess, it has worsened.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/daily...uality-america

Watching you jump through hoops to defend a plutocracy is simply amazing.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Riot

No. Income inequality has not improved since 2009 as you profess, it has worsened.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/daily...uality-america

Watching you jump through hoops to defend a plutocracy is simply amazing.

Honestly Dell, one doesn't need charts and graphs and articles by scholars to see that the wealth gap is increasing at the expense of the poor, there are two Americas today, the one inhabited by the rich and the one where the rest of us live. All the propaganda in the world won't change that fact and sooner or later folks are gonna tire of watching the wealthy grow wealthier while they struggle and find it impossible to give their kids the same as they were given by their parents. When that day comes there will be revolution and it won't be pretty!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Honestly Dell, one doesn't need charts and graphs and articles by scholars to see that the wealth gap is increasing at the expense of the poor, there are two Americas today, the one inhabited by the rich and the one where the rest of us live. All the propaganda in the world won't change that fact and sooner or later folks are gonna tire of watching the wealthy grow wealthier while they struggle and find it impossible to give their kids the same as they were given by their parents. When that day comes there will be revolution and it won't be pretty!

It's already happening, and it's Occupy. In America, in Europe, in South America. Some will not be sheep any more.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Riot

It's already happening, and it's Occupy. In America, in Europe, in South America. Some will not be sheep any more.

The "Occupy" movement is just the beginning, these folks are expressing their dissatisfaction with things but from dissatisfaction eventually comes the seeds of revolution, this country like most was founded on the blood of patriots, it is naive to think bloodshed is a thing of the past. As Grace Slick once famously sang on TV (getting by the network censors)..."up against the wall mother f-ers"

[Riot]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

The "Occupy" movement is just the beginning, these folks are expressing their dissatisfaction with things but from dissatisfaction eventually comes the seeds of revolution, this country like most was founded on the blood of patriots, it is naive to think bloodshed is a thing of the past. As Grace Slick once famously sang on TV (getting by the network censors)..."up against the wall mother f-ers"

So far the violence has mainly been perpetrated by plutocrats via the police, against the protesters, trying to stop the movement.

“I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world" - Michael Bloomberg, speaking of the NYC police department, at an MIT speech, November 29, 2011.

Who do the police serve and protect, Mr. Billionaire? You? Or the citizens of New York?

The court cases are starting to be heard, regarding the infringement on free speech rights, and violence on the part of the police, and Occupy is doing very well so far.

I wonder what the public would say, if, back when protesters were wearing guns in public and calling for the tree of liberty to be watered with the blood of patriots in health care town halls, they were pepper sprayed and prevented from demonstrating.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

The "Occupy" movement is just the beginning, these folks are expressing their dissatisfaction with things but from dissatisfaction eventually comes the seeds of revolution, this country like most was founded on the blood of patriots, it is naive to think bloodshed is a thing of the past."

Wonder how those Patriots would have acted if once the British were defeated the new government came and told them they need to "collect 4 cents on every dollar earned and 6 cents for every dollar paid and they (Gov) will keep it for safe keeping on top of a personal income tax not to exceed 34%. Then tax on the farm or any property owned, and everything you buy.

Oh and you're going to have to buy a license plate and sticker for every horse/wagon you own, need to go get tested and licensed to ride and drive, need a FOID card and register every gun, buy shots for the dogs and kids, license for the dog, and a extra tax on top of sales for the barber."

Then when he asks what all the money is for, tell him "while we will use some of the money for the military and defense three times that money will be used to pay anyone not working for two years, for single mothers and kids, the elderly and anyone who can't afford medical care."

In Somer speak reminds me of

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9p8xxgT748

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Honestly Dell, one doesn't need charts and graphs and articles by scholars to see that the wealth gap is increasing at the expense of the poor, there are two Americas today, the one inhabited by the rich and the one where the rest of us live. All the propaganda in the world won't change that fact and sooner or later folks are gonna tire of watching the wealthy grow wealthier while they struggle and find it impossible to give their kids the same as they were given by their parents. When that day comes there will be revolution and it won't be pretty!

This has always been. There is no newly developed rich America. There has always been and as long as money is used as currency always will be. The Continential Congress wasnt made up of common folk.

There is no bigger propaganda than the idea that wealthy people are oppressing the masses.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This has always been. There is no newly developed rich America.

No. But there is a newly missing former middle class, isn't there?

There is no bigger propaganda than the idea that wealthy people are oppressing the masses.

That's right. Just move along. Congress and your government is a wholly owned plutocracy of the wealthy, don't you little people worry about it

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

No. But there is a newly missing former middle class, isn't there?



That's right. Just move along. Congress and your government is a wholly owned plutocracy of the wealthy, don't you little people worry about it

If there is no middle class than why all the hand wringing about them?

Yeah a bunch of people holed up in parks across the country are going to root out corruption and greed. Sure they are...

Money talks and bullshit walks...not sure why anyone thinks this will ever change in, well just about everything?