Graded Stakes Committee Makes Changes

[rgustafson]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Yep we need to promote Keeneland and their SPECIAL horse healthy racing surface.. Shameful simply shameful ..Its the Hopeful for Christ sake..The winners of the Hopeful line the Hall of Fame..THE FN BREEDERS CUP JUVY SPRINTS ?

Not saying that I disagree with your rant about the Hopeful downgrade, but the Graded Stakes committe uses certain criteria to make their recommendations and evidentally felt that recent runnings did not measure up. Your other comments are somewhat misconstrued. The Keeneland upgrade, the Jenny wiley is on the turf so no promotion of their SPECIAL surface there, though I understand your comment pertains to leaving the Blue Grass a Grade I. As far as the Breeders Cup races that were upgraded they were the Juvenile Fillies Turf( not a sprint) and the Turf Sprint for older males, 3& up. I thimk that you would agree that it has pretty much been a foregone conclusion that once a Breeders Cup race has been run enough times a Grade I status is awarded( the exception being the Marathon which is an ill concieved joke of a race and hopefully will not be continued)

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by rgustafson

Not saying that I disagree with your rant about the Hopeful downgrade, but the Graded Stakes committe uses certain criteria to make their recommendations and evidentally felt that recent runnings did not measure up. Your other comments are somewhat misconstrued. The Keeneland upgrade, the Jenny wiley is on the turf so no promotion of their SPECIAL surface there, though I understand your comment pertains to leaving the Blue Grass a Grade I. As far as the Breeders Cup races that were upgraded they were the Juvenile Fillies Turf( not a sprint) and the Turf Sprint for older males, 3& up. I thimk that you would agree that it has pretty much been a foregone conclusion that once a Breeders Cup race has been run enough times a Grade I status is awarded( the exception being the Marathon which is an ill concieved joke of a race and hopefully will not be continued)

The 2009 and 2010 runnings of the Hopeful were by no means spectacular but did feature 1-2-3 finishers that subsequently won the Gotham, Jim Dandy, Travers, Commonwealth, and Churchill Downs.

The 2010 Ruffian was won by a G2 winner who came back to place in a G2. The runner-up came back to win the BC Distaff. The year before the 2nd place finisher was a G1 winner and the winner was exiting a 2nd place finish in a G1.

Neither of these two races deserved to be downgraded. The Jenny Wiley and Cotillion were races that deserved to be upgraded.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by rgustafson

I thimk that you would agree that it has pretty much been a foregone conclusion that once a Breeders Cup race has been run enough times a Grade I status is awarded( the exception being the Marathon which is an ill concieved joke of a race and hopefully will not be continued)

Isn't the Turf Sprint pretty much along the same lines, a joke?

[Antitrust32]

it's an absolute disgrace that the Hopeful is no longer a Grade 1. In my opinion it is a premier 2yo race right up there with the BC Juv.

Who the hell makes these kind of decisions?

[Linny]

The way 2yo's are campaigned nowadays, I understand the Hopeful downgrade. Most years of late it's been a glorified NW1x. In fact, I tend to think that the Euro's have it right in that only their major year end "destination" races for 2yo's have G1 status. I thus think that the Del Mar Futurity should also be downgraded. History can only go so far. Many of the "great races" won by the sports champions have vanished due to lack of ongoing interest or competition from other venues. Just ask Pimlico. The Special was once a must on the resumes of top older horses.

When the elite horses are scheduled to have 5 and 6 race campaigns the sport simply cannot support the number of G1's it once did.

I guss I get the BC upgrades, but in all honesty the turf sprint division remains very broad but not very deep. Maybe they want the spinoff 2yo grass fillies to have the same status as the colts but again we just really don't have a 2yo grass division so I think that this race is a nod to egt more Wuro partication from the highest ranks.

The Jenny Wiley has attracted good fields but I'm not sure it's really a G1 either.

I am surprised that the Gazelle didn't get chopped.

[ateamstupid]

Like most of the changes. @ the Hopeful being downgraded though.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Like most of the changes. @ the Hopeful being downgraded though.

I'll Have Another was 6th in the Hopeful last year. Hmm.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Linny

In fact, I tend to think that the Euro's have it right in that only their major year end "destination" races for 2yo's have G1 status.

France and Ireland hold their first Group 1 events for juveniles in August/September just as the US does.

Only Britain follows the pattern you describe, but inexplicably, it held its first two, the Dewhurst (7f) and Middle Park (6f), on the same day at the same racecourse this year. That cannot make any long term sense.

If the Juvenile Turf races are Grade 1 in order to attract top class Euro participation, then they have done poorly. For the most part, Coolmore and the like have sent nothing over but second string horses to take chunks of the $1 million purses back home. Not a single Group 1 winner has faced the starter in the 9 total runnings. I think only Pounced (who never started again) and Together were even placed in a Group 1 prior to the BC. And Lillie Langtry (injured in the 2009 running) might be the only horse to win a European Group 1 race in subsequent seasons.

That said, last year's renewal of the Juvenile Turf at the very least served as a good preview of the following year's crop of American turf 3yos. Despite Pluck's remarkable double misfire for any semblance of a campaign, and Soldat's modestly successful Derby trail on dirt, last year's race featured Willcox Inn, Banned, Humble And Hungry, and Air Support. Collectively, those 4 took down 9 stakes and placed in 8 others, the vast majority being graded stakes. Grade 2 status sounds about right.

[rgustafson]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Isn't the Turf Sprint pretty much along the same lines, a joke?

There has been such a large proliferation of this type of race in recent years, especially at some major venues (NYRA tracks in particular) that eventually some halfway decent horses find their way into these races. On the other hand, 1 3/4 miles on the dirt......um. not so much.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by rgustafson

There has been such a large proliferation of this type of race in recent years, especially at some major venues (NYRA tracks in particular) that eventually some halfway decent horses find their way into these races. On the other hand, 1 3/4 miles on the dirt......um. not so much.

So " halfway decent horses " make up Grade 1 races now?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So " halfway decent horses " make up Grade 1 races now?

Only the better Grade 1's

[Cannon Shell]

The graded stakes system is not only fairly useless in its present state but is harmful to the sport of horse racing by creating undeserved credentials for too many horses who use the graded blacktype as a justification to stop racing. A complete revamp of the system is badly needed but will never happen because the TOBA is a farce of an organization. They desperately fight against lasix (despite the fact that taking it away will lead to the devaluation of bloodstock accross the board) yet they adhere to this bloated system and wont drastically cut the number of graded events because they fear the effects it will have on the value of bloodstock (fewer graded blacktype horses, fewer credentialed mares, etc)

Assigning a "grade" to a race without knowing who is running in it is moronic. Assigning some sort of performance rates to stakes races after the season has concluded would not only be more accurate but would lead to increased competition and less ducking for fear of a year end downgrade. Had Zenyatta's connections had to choose between staying in CA and racing in races which would clearly be graded poorly due to the weak competition or racing in better races, well what do you think they might have done? Obviously classic races and certsin designated races could have some sort of special designation but far too many graded races are nothing more than allowance level races but for one or two horses.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The graded stakes system is not only fairly useless in its present state but is harmful to the sport of horse racing by creating undeserved credentials for too many horses who use the graded blacktype as a justification to stop racing. A complete revamp of the system is badly needed but will never happen because the TOBA is a farce of an organization. They desperately fight against lasix (despite the fact that taking it away will lead to the devaluation of bloodstock accross the board) yet they adhere to this bloated system and wont drastically cut the number of graded events because they fear the effects it will have on the value of bloodstock (fewer graded blacktype horses, fewer credentialed mares, etc)

Assigning a "grade" to a race without knowing who is running in it is moronic. Assigning some sort of performance rates to stakes races after the season has concluded would not only be more accurate but would lead to increased competition and less ducking for fear of a year end downgrade. Had Zenyatta's connections had to choose between staying in CA and racing in races which would clearly be graded poorly due to the weak competition or racing in better races, well what do you think they might have done? Obviously classic races and certsin designated races could have some sort of special designation but far too many graded races are nothing more than allowance level races but for one or two horses.

[rgustafson]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So " halfway decent horses " make up Grade 1 races now?

Yes, but only if they have been run for four consecutive years and only if they are part of the Breeders Cup program because after all this is racing's "Championship Day(s)."