Occupy Wall Street

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Danzig

don't begrudge them? we pay and pay, they can too, can't they? the koch brothers are loaded--i thought if we didn't tax the rich, they'd create jobs??instead, 700 people here just got their walking papers courtesy of the kochs. yeah, because laying off more folks will help turn the economy around!!

Obfuscation. The federal income tax is 35 percent for the top bracket. 35 percent. How is that not a "fair share?" If 35 percent of any human's income isn't their fair share to fund the government, what is? 50 percent? 60 percent?

When a staggering percentage of the rich have profited off of the decade-long wars? 85%

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

When a staggering percentage of the rich have profited off of the decade-long wars? 85%

Do you have specifics? Sounds interesting.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Obfuscation. The federal income tax is 35 percent for the top bracket. 35 percent. How is that not a "fair share?" If 35 percent of any human's income isn't their fair share to fund the government, what is? 50 percent? 60 percent?

Percentages are meaningless unless you have limited rightoffs. They are not paying anything near 35% hence Warren Buffets statements.

[dino]

Shouldn't these protestors either be working or looking for a job? Just when was it that working hard and making something out of your life is a BAD thing? Maybe we should all bring up our children teaching them that they should be losers who expect other people to take care of them.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dino

Shouldn't these protestors either be working or looking for a job? Just when was it that working hard and making something out of your life is a BAD thing? Maybe we should all bring up our children teaching them that they should be losers who expect other people to take care of them.

there's nothing wrong with working hard. they aren't protesting that. instead, people see wall street making money hand over fist, banks being 'bailed out' while paying millions in bonuses. ceo salaries thru the roof, etc, etc. how have the rich ever garnered so much sympathy? where is the sympathy for people looking for work that can't find it? people who pay into their 401k, only to see their retirement disappear? how many people can't retire because they can't afford it, which means no churn in employment?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

there's nothing wrong with working hard. they aren't protesting that. instead, people see wall street making money hand over fist, banks being 'bailed out' while paying millions in bonuses. ceo salaries thru the roof, etc, etc. how have the rich ever garnered so much sympathy? where is the sympathy for people looking for work that can't find it? people who pay into their 401k, only to see their retirement disappear? how many people can't retire because they can't afford it, which means no churn in employment?

Dino has a job for now and everyone that doesn't is a worthless piece of sh*it. And he is quite good at parroting the talking points he hears on Fox News. It also fails to realize that this is the 21st century and you don't pound the pavement to find a job. You apply online, Post to Monster etc and are notified via email or cellphone call if they want to speak further. Sorry to blow is image of all protesters being lazy morons but you can protest and look for a job at the same time.

[dino]

Originally Posted by jms62

Dino has a job for now and everyone that doesn't is a worthless piece of sh*it. And he is quite good at parroting the talking points he hears on Fox News. It also fails to realize that this is the 21st century and you don't pound the pavement to find a job. You apply online, Post to Monster etc and are notified via email or cellphone call if they want to speak further. Sorry to blow is image of all protesters being lazy morons but you can protest and look for a job at the same time.

I must have missed the piece of **** comment that I made. Obviously there are plenty of hard working people out of work. That's a totally different subject that has nothing to do with this point. The protestors we are discussing are actually protesting people that are rich, not just the wall street insiders. They believe that the supposed rich should pay more taxes so that they don't have to pay any taxes like 48% of our country.
If I was unemployed I sure as hell wouldn't expect anyone in this country to pay more taxes to help me and my family. I would be cleaning toilets before asking for a handout, unlike too many people.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dino

I must have missed the piece of **** comment that I made. Obviously there are plenty of hard working people out of work. That's a totally different subject that has nothing to do with this point. The protestors we are discussing are actually protesting people that are rich, not just the wall street insiders. They believe that the supposed rich should pay more taxes so that they don't have to pay any taxes like 48% of our country.
If I was unemployed I sure as hell wouldn't expect anyone in this country to pay more taxes to help me and my family. I would be cleaning toilets before asking for a handout, unlike too many people.

Dino... Really? You think the ENTIRE point of this is about the rich paying more taxes? That is certainly what the rebulicons want you to think, Pit the Working Class vs The unemployed and maybe you wont see that (Fill in the blank here Rebuplicons or Libtards) are changing the rules to enrich myself. This is way more than and important than tax rates and if it were simply tax rates I would be side by side with you.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

there's nothing wrong with working hard. they aren't protesting that. instead, people see wall street making money hand over fist, banks being 'bailed out' while paying millions in bonuses. ceo salaries thru the roof, etc, etc. how have the rich ever garnered so much sympathy? where is the sympathy for people looking for work that can't find it? people who pay into their 401k, only to see their retirement disappear? how many people can't retire because they can't afford it, which means no churn in employment?

The only problem with this is if banks are allowed to fail or go under how many millions of innocent, non-rich American people and businesses will be financially ruined?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The only problem with this is if banks are allowed to fail or go under how many millions of innocent, non-rich American people and businesses will be financially ruined?

oh, i know that part would be bad...but it's hard for folks to understand how banks can pay out tons of money if they just needed a bail out. if the ceo's were doing such a good job, and earned that money, why did they come begging?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

oh, i know that part would be bad...but it's hard for folks to understand how banks can pay out tons of money if they just needed a bail out. if the ceo's were doing such a good job, and earned that money, why did they come begging?

While it may be annoying does it really have any effect on those people? I have no love for banks or bankers but what exactly is the plan here? Is it fair that banks can still hold our money for 2 weeks despite knowing almost instantly that a check is good? Of course not. Do I enjoy the endless fees like charging to take cash deposits or not having overdraft? hell no. But I would rather see these things addressed than worry about what the CEO of the bank is making. It isn't as though if he made less these fees and policies wouldnt still be in effect.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Percentages are meaningless unless you have limited rightoffs. They are not paying anything near 35% hence Warren Buffets statements.

which is why the tax code needs to be overhauled. also, people need to face facts-not all wealthy folks create jobs, or worked hard for their money. we can't keep burying the middle class under all the burdens. 47% of america pays nothing in federal taxes. nothing. of course no one mentions whether they receive 'refunds'. that means just over half the country bears all of the burden. and the burden is getting too big for the 53% who are providing 100% of the money that our fed burns thru.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by jms62

Percentages are meaningless unless you have limited rightoffs. They are not paying anything near 35% hence Warren Buffets statements.

Warren Buffett's statement is true because A., he makes all of his money on investments, and B., the capital gains rate is lower than the federal income tax rate paid by his "secretary." It has nothing to do with income tax percentages or "rightoffs" as you put it.

Are you saying that capital gains and dividends should be taxed at the same rate as income? Because if so, that is beyond a horrible idea.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Warren Buffett's statement is true because A., he makes all of his money on investments, and B., the capital gains rate is lower than the federal income tax rate paid by his "secretary." It has nothing to do with income tax percentages or "rightoffs" as you put it.

Are you saying that capital gains and dividends should be taxed at the same rate as income? Because if so, that is beyond a horrible idea.

Wow. Nice response you try and put words in my mouth without addressing the main point of my message which is 35% is meaningless and just a talking point. They don't pay anything near 35% and probably most receive a refund to boot. If you think that I said "Are you saying that capital gains and dividends should be taxed at the same rate as income?" then no wonder you don't see that these people protesting are protesting for you and I.

Their point is that our government is being bought by special interests and they are making rules that benefit those special interests at our expense. If you think that you are or ever will be part of this 1% then you are delusional. Additionally you and the Dino's of the world may not be directly affected NOW however this is like a cancer. As our economy spirals downwards you and your business will directly be affected. As jobs become scarce and DEFLATION takes hold everything you everyworked for will become worth less and less.

[slotdirt]

You really think that most people making over $374k (the 35 percent income tax bracket) are getting a refund? Especially when one includes local, state, and property taxes? Really?

And you have no idea whether or not I'll ever be in the top income tax bracket without looking at my W-2's. I can assure you these people are not protesting on my behalf. Whether or not I'm ever lucky enough to make that much money, I'll still never agree with the premise that rich people need to be taxed at a higher percentage simply because they're rich.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

You really think that most people making over $374k (the 35 percent income tax bracket) are getting a refund? Really?

If they have good accountants then yes or at least pay far less than 35% which is my point. Until you can prove otherwise then what I said has about as much merit as you insinuating that most making over 374 pay 35%. Agree?

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by jms62

If they have good accountants then yes or at least pay far less than 35% which is my point. Until you can prove otherwise then what I said has about as much merit as you insinuating that most making over 374 pay 35%. Agree?

"Far" less? Since you seem to be a federal income tax policy expert, I think the onus is clearly on you to prove the effective tax rate of the various income brackets. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that people in the 15 percent tax bracket are also paying less than 15 percent all things considered. Agreed?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

You really think that most people making over $374k (the 35 percent income tax bracket) are getting a refund? Especially when one includes local, state, and property taxes? Really?

And you have no idea whether or not I'll ever be in the top income tax bracket without looking at my W-2's. I can assure you these people are not protesting on my behalf. Whether or not I'm ever lucky enough to make that much money, I'll still never agree with the premise that rich people need to be taxed at a higher percentage simply because they're rich.

Top tax bracket is FAR FAR FAR away from my point that you will never be amongst the 1%. So getting back to the point tell me why these people are not protesting on your behalf?

Are you for banks being bailed out at our expense?

Are you for those people bringing us to the edge not being prosecuted and in fact receiving huge severances and bonuses for those who stayed?

Are you for special interests buying legislation that further helps them and hurts you?

Are you for jobs being shipped overseas and cheap foriegn labor being imported so companies can reach short term goals while in effect firing thier customers?

I think you probably have a lot more in common with those people than you think but are still clinging to this Republican v Democrat thing.. They both are fuking evil and whoever is in charge won't change a thing.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by jms62

Top tax bracket is FAR FAR FAR away from my point that you will never be amongst the 1%. So getting back to the point tell me why these people are not protesting on your behalf?

Are you for banks being bailed out at our expense?

Are you for those people bringing us to the edge not being prosecuted and in fact receiving huge severances and bonuses for those who stayed?

Are you for special interests buying legislation that further helps them and hurts you?

Are you for jobs being shipped overseas and cheap foriegn labor being imported so companies can reach short term goals while in effect firing thier customers?

I think you probably have a lot more in common with those people than you think but are still clinging to this Republican v Democrat thing.. They both are fuking evil and whoever is in charge won't change a thing.

Agree with just about everything you say....folks are so blinded by party politics that they don't see what's going on all around them. Both the right and the left are fed up with business as usual and if the folks in power don't wake up soon, things are gonna get nasty, history tells us that the masses will eventually rise up against what they see as blatant unfair treatment. Nothing is as simple as the sound-bite mentality this country has embraced, difficult problems require difficult solutions but they also require honesty, fairness (to all, not the wealthy few) and leadership...otherwise systems break down and chaos follows.