Occupy Wall Street

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

They're not protesting "greed" so much as they are protesting a system they see as rigged against the middle class.

Michael Moore lives in Michigan.

I agree with you about the state of economic affairs in Europe.

The system has always been rigged. You can throw out all the charts and numbers that you want but the thing that is different now than it was years ago is that because of consumer credit, govt intrusion into programs for political purposes and simple evolution of social means what the "middle class" means are far greater than what it once did. Seriously think of middle Amercan 50 years ago and then think of it now? Outside of healthcare being a far greater expense now the midle class lives a far more prosperous life than it did.

The Gov't caused the housing bubble that burst just as much as the banks. BUT what are we going to do about it now? What do you do with people that can't pay thier mortages (despite record low interest rates) yet never should have been in that home in the 1st place? Don't they share any blame? Or the people who maxed out credit cards and now find that their credit sucks. Is that the banks fault for giving them the cards in the 1st place? Laying blame is a tricky thing as usually all parties share some of it.

The amount of money the rich has is really immaterial in many ways as so much of it isn't tangible anyway. If I was worth 1/2 billion dollars but the vast majority of it was in Solyndra stock, well how is that holding the common man down? Hell I'm broke now too! Too many people that think that they are being held down by the system don't look at themselves. Sure if you are from old money and get chauffered into Yale or Princeton you are born with an advantage. Sure the rich (really rich not the nouveau rich) manipulate the system but they always have. But that same system allows people that come from nothing to prosper if they come up with something original and work hard at it.

Protesting is great if it brings light to your cause. But you have to have a plan to further that cause and I'm afraid that the general message that most people get from Occupy Wall Street is those people are mad and fed up but really have no clue as to how to change anything. This is different than protesting a war or civil rights. A war can end and civil rights can be enacted via laws. How do suppose you "change the system" or rid the Earth of greed?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Seriously think of middle Amercan 50 years ago and then think of it now? Outside of healthcare being a far greater expense now the midle class lives a far more prosperous life than it did.

Sorry, no. All the economic data says no to your theory of "far more prosperous". And here is that data, in the link below.

By every metric: real income, buying power, tax liability, etc - no, people are not more prosperous now. They are less prosperous. The middle class has been disappearing.

And the fact that the data says "no" to "more prosperous life", and in fact they have a less prosperous life - is exactly why Occupy Wall Street is occurring.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...=sidebyuserrec

Oh, yeah: not to mention today's headline about the continued diminishment of the middle class:

Recession Officially Over, U.S. Incomes Kept Falling
By ROBERT PEAR Published: October 9, 2011

WASHINGTON — In a grim sign of the enduring nature of the economic slump, household income declined more in the two years after the recession ended than it did during the recession itself, new research has found.

Between June 2009, when the recession officially ended, and June 2011, inflation-adjusted median household income fell 6.7 percent, to $49,909, according to a study by two former Census Bureau officials. During the recession — from December 2007 to June 2009 — household income fell 3.2 percent.

Continued ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/us...t-falling.html

Originally Posted by Riot

Sorry, no. All the economic data says no to your theory of "far more prosperous". And here is that data, in the link below.

By every metric: real income, buying power, tax liability, etc - no, people are not more prosperous now. They are less prosperous. The middle class has been disappearing.

And the fact that the data says "no" to "more prosperous life", and in fact they have a less prosperous life - is exactly why Occupy Wall Street is occurring.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...=sidebyuserrec

Oh, yeah: not to mention today's headline about the continued diminishment of the middle class:

Yeah maybe from a technology standpoint but that affordability is dictated by the ruling class. In fact there are people who believe our government has technology that is 20 years ahead of what Joe Public is given.

I tend to believe it.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Yeah maybe from a technology standpoint but that affordability is dictated by the ruling class. In fact there are people who believe our government has technology that is 20 years ahead of what Joe Public is given.

I tend to believe it.

How do you think the government would be reacting if all these thousands of OWS protesters in Manhattan, Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, DC, etc. - you know, the folks characterized as "angry mob" by Eric Cantor - looked more like this?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sorry, no. All the economic data says no to your theory of "far more prosperous". And here is that data, in the link below.

By every metric: real income, buying power, tax liability, etc - no, people are not more prosperous now. They are less prosperous. The middle class has been disappearing.

And the fact that the data says "no" to "more prosperous life", and in fact they have a less prosperous life - is exactly why Occupy Wall Street is occurring.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...=sidebyuserrec

Oh, yeah: not to mention today's headline about the continued diminishment of the middle class:

The data is of course subject to context. Think back to when typical middle class families had no credit cards, no home equity loans, one car, no formal personal retirement accounts, very little investment opportunity, during the 70' were paying 18% interest on mortgages, when access to higher education was more limited, when leasing a "luxury" car was impossible. Think back to when only rich people could go on a caribbean cruise, when a single income earner was sufficent, before the luxuries of the rich like cell phones were available at a reasonable cost to anyone. Before average people could afford personal computers or flat screen tv's.

How did the middle class fare in 1929? How did they fare in 1939? In 1979?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Think back to when typical middle class families had no credit cards

A good thing.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

no home equity loans

A good thing

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

one car

A good thing.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

no formal personal retirement accounts

No debt + saving your income + 21% interest rate on bank CD's equals great retirement account.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

very little investment opportunity

A good thing.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

during the 70' were paying 18% interest on mortgages, when access to higher education was more limited, when leasing a "luxury" car was impossible.

Bring back Jimmy Carter! Grandpa Sal's all-time favorite president.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Think back to when only rich people could go on a caribbean cruise

I wouldn't go on a caribbean cruise if it cost zero.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

before the luxuries of the rich like cell phones were available at a reasonable cost to anyone.

I had no Cell phone for about six months -- best six months of my life.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Before average people could afford personal computers or flat screen tv's.

You have a point here. We are in a golden age of porn and masturbation material.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

A good thing.




A good thing






A good thing.




No debt + saving your income + 21% interest rate on bank CD's equals great retirement account.




A good thing.




Bring back Jimmy Carter! Grandpa Sal's all-time favorite president.





I wouldn't go on a caribbean cruise if it cost zero.




I had no Cell phone for about six months -- best six months of my life.




You have a point here. We are in a golden age of porn and masturbation material.

You are not middle class, you are in a class of your own

[Riot]

Posted by Cannon Shell
Seriously think of middle Amercan 50 years ago and then think of it now? Outside of healthcare being a far greater expense now the midle class lives a far more prosperous life than it did.

[jms62]

Folks are starting to get serious..

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/10/news...test/index.htm