unions killing jobs...

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://news.yahoo.com/afl-cio-seeks-...183549227.html



"Many union leaders are frustrated that their money has not bought more meaningful support for the union agenda in Congress"

They're crooks, but they're honest!

[dino]

I'm a non union worker at a union shop and before anyone judges unions they need to walk a day in my shoes at work. I'm surrounded by overpaid union workers that expect the world in salary and benefits yet haven't done an honest days work in years. On the average I would say your typical worker where I work makes 90K, has the best benefits I have ever seen, can retire at 78% pay at 55 and does maybe 5 hours of actual work a week. Not a bad gig if you can get it.
But these are the type of people that voted for Obama because he is the king of the "Free Ride Party" and I can tell you first hand that just about every union worker at my work voted for him and plan to do the same next election.

[Antitrust32]

damn dino. you got me wanting to join a union!

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dino

I'm a non union worker at a union shop and before anyone judges unions they need to walk a day in my shoes at work. I'm surrounded by overpaid union workers that expect the world in salary and benefits yet haven't done an honest days work in years. On the average I would say your typical worker where I work makes 90K, has the best benefits I have ever seen, can retire at 78% pay at 55 and does maybe 5 hours of actual work a week. Not a bad gig if you can get it.
But these are the type of people that voted for Obama because he is the king of the "Free Ride Party" and I can tell you first hand that just about every union worker at my work voted for him and plan to do the same next election.

I would expect eventually you may be asked if you'd like to join this union. Would you turn it down?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dino

I'm a non union worker at a union shop and before anyone judges unions they need to walk a day in my shoes at work. I'm surrounded by overpaid union workers that expect the world in salary and benefits yet haven't done an honest days work in years. On the average I would say your typical worker where I work makes 90K, has the best benefits I have ever seen, can retire at 78% pay at 55 and does maybe 5 hours of actual work a week. Not a bad gig if you can get it.

Funny, in many other first world countries, every worker gets benefits like that.

It's called, "normal".

I laugh at the demonization of unions, by people that hardly mentioned them a year ago <g>

Oh, well, when the demonization of the Muslim Kenyan Non-Citizen Black President has been disproved, and the demonization of "death panel health care" has been disproved, you have to go with something new. Last year the Koch Brothers and the RGA and ALEC decided it would be unions, and passed out the talking points sheets at the annual convention for the governors to initiate at the state level. Politics power grabs. So it goes. GOP-TV (Faux News) got the memo, too, and started in training their listeners that unions are filled with "evil thugs". Those kindergarten teachers and 9-11 NY firefighters, yeah, those thugs! <g>

The GOP has always been good at messaging. Hell, Rupert Murdoch supported Obama, but Roger Ailes had a hissy fit of hate, and was making so much money for Rupert, he let Ailes run with the Obama-hate on Faux. The Tea Party is causing the regular GOP no end of pain, as the TP (formed by GOP operatives) got out of control and talk the talk, but fail to vote the vote the right way in Congress, but the GOP is taking them down one by one and regaining control (Rove against Perry and Bachmann, for example). You need compliance in the underlings to survive in the current GOP theocracy. The power elite aren't giving up any of it, especially to a bunch of fools who don't believe in climate change or evolution.

[Calzone Lord]

Is there a union for people who post on horse racing boards?

If so, what are the benefits you get?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Is there a union for people who post on horse racing boards?

It's the same local you belong to, with the troll union.

[Calzone Lord]

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Yes, nice self-portrait. Post something new about yourself.

PS - that is an obvious fake, but hey, it was a good attempt.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Funny, in many other first world countries, every worker gets benefits like that.

It's called, "normal".

I laugh at the demonization of unions, by people that hardly mentioned them a year ago <g>

Oh, well, when the demonization of the Muslim Kenyan Non-Citizen Black President has been disproved, and the demonization of "death panel health care" has been disproved, you have to go with something new. Last year the Koch Brothers and the RGA and ALEC decided it would be unions, and passed out the talking points sheets at the annual convention for the governors to initiate at the state level. Politics power grabs. So it goes. GOP-TV (Faux News) got the memo, too, and started in training their listeners that unions are filled with "evil thugs". Those kindergarten teachers and 9-11 NY firefighters, yeah, those thugs! <g>

The GOP has always been good at messaging. Hell, Rupert Murdoch supported Obama, but Roger Ailes had a hissy fit of hate, and was making so much money for Rupert, he let Ailes run with the Obama-hate on Faux. The Tea Party is causing the regular GOP no end of pain, as the TP (formed by GOP operatives) got out of control and talk the talk, but fail to vote the vote the right way in Congress, but the GOP is taking them down one by one and regaining control (Rove against Perry and Bachmann, for example). You need compliance in the underlings to survive in the current GOP theocracy. The power elite aren't giving up any of it, especially to a bunch of fools who don't believe in climate change or evolution.

most workers get high pay for not much work? i'm sure that's not what you meant.
thing is, although unions aren't 'killing jobs' in the case that chuck cited, they are most definitely in the wrong. the tack they are taking that boeing is in the wrong for starting up another plant is absolutely ridiculous. but, their position is that if it's non union, it's bad is ridiculous.
a non-union job isn't necessarily a bad job, or underpaid, or where people get abused. nor are all union jobs good, high paying jobs.
btw, koch owns a company (perhaps several?) with both union and non union sites. the unionized plant here has been thru several contract negotiations since koch bought them, with no problems at all. no attempts to crush unions, altho that was all the gossip back when they made the purchase.


as for dino's post, he probably makes the same money as his union brothers. but he doesn't mention that!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

most workers get high pay for not much work? i'm sure that's not what you meant.

Yes, true, most workers in other first world countries get earlier retirement, work less hours a week, get paid maternity leave, get more paid vacation, and better pensions in the US. Not that they only work "5 hours a week".

Calling all union workers freeloaders is nonsensical. Yes, it certainly applies to some (I grew up watching a job in Chicago take 6 guys: 2 to actually work, 2 to stand around and "supervise", and 2 to report back to headquarters)

btw, koch owns a company (perhaps several?) with both union and non union sites. the unionized plant here has been thru several contract negotiations since koch bought them, with no problems at all. no attempts to crush unions, altho that was all the gossip back when they made the purchase.

I think people forget that, when any union has terrific benefits, it's the company that negotiated that with the union. It takes two. And yes, many unions and companies have excellent relations.

Many company workers repeatedly refuse to unionize (Toyota in America, for example) because the company treats them well with excellent benefits already. There is no need.

For example, in Wisconsin, Gov. Scott Walker demanded unions start paying for more of their health care and benefits as the state had a budget deficit. The unions immediately agreed to 100% of the cuts.

Walker busted the unions as "evil money-grabbing thugs" anyways. Sometimes it's the company that are really the lying thugs.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

thing is, although unions aren't 'killing jobs' in the case that chuck cited, they are most definitely in the wrong. the tack they are taking that boeing is in the wrong for starting up another plant is absolutely ridiculous. but, their position is that if it's non union, it's bad is ridiculous.

Uh if the unions prevail here how doesnt it kill all the jobs that the new factory would have added?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh if the unions prevail here how doesnt it kill all the jobs that the new factory would have added?

Boeing Dreamliner delays: years of bad management and outsourcing

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/01/...-goes-too-far/

Specifically, did Boeing outsource too much of the Dreamliner's components to other companies in other countries? Will the 787's outsourcing problems persist? And what might this mean for airlines, passengers and investors in Boeing stock? The short answers are: yes, probably, and it's too early to tell.

Yeah, American companies should complain about evil American unions, and outsource like hell until the GOP can take over completely and remove "inhibitors to job creation": like minimum wage restrictions, child labor laws, having to pay overtime, and workplace safety rules, so it's "reasonable" to return jobs to the United States.

Of course, they'll never be able to remove those "inhibitors to job creation" until they bust the unions up and get them the hell out of the way so they can overturn 100 years of worker rights. How can we do that? Oh, yeah! Blame the unions for the financial disasters caused by Wall Street and large corporate selfish irresponsibility!

"The United States of America - Race To The Bottom, Embracing Third World Status"

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Boeing Dreamliner delays: years of bad management and outsourcing

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/01/...-goes-too-far/



Yeah, American companies should complain about evil American unions, and outsource like hell until the GOP can take over completely and remove "inhibitors to job creation": like minimum wage restrictions, child labor laws, having to pay overtime, and workplace safety rules, so it's "reasonable" to return jobs to the United States.

Of course, they'll never be able to remove those "inhibitors to job creation" until they bust the unions up and get them the hell out of the way so they can overturn 100 years of worker rights. How can we do that? Oh, yeah! Blame the unions for the financial disasters caused by Wall Street and large corporate selfish irresponsibility!

"The United States of America - Race To The Bottom, Embracing Third World Status"

You can only yell "fire" so many times,Riot!....but I kinda like that last line...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh if the unions prevail here how doesnt it kill all the jobs that the new factory would have added?

i think i misplaced a comma in what you quoted. i meant it to say you can't make a blanket statement, but in this case, obviously jobs would be killed. that the union is in the wrong.

[Danzig]

are unions the ultimate evil? no. are there abuses, just like with every other business? absolutely.

thing is, a union is ultimately a business, just like any other. they seek to make money, turn a profit. in my opinion, they are akin to churches. they started with a good purpose, but they're only worried about the bottom line at this point.

union membership has been on the decline for years. in the last year or so, the majority of union membership is now from the public sector rather than private. they are kicking and clawing to remain a viable entity. but many of their ideas aren't so much a good thing for the employee, as a good thing for themselves.

we aren't in the condition we are in because of unions-but many corporations bottom lines have been affected by union practices over the years. the automakers are a perfect example. retirement packages and layoff procedures are like nothing found anywhere else. ultimately pensions became too big a burden, much like what the usps is now facing. or schools.

my husband is in a union, has been for close to 15 years-more for self-preservation than anything. sorry, that union is a joke. they gave up the right to strike years ago, which is really the only power a union has in its arsenal. it's as useful at this point as a gelding in a breeding shed. contract negotiations went swimmingly in both contract talks since koch purchased, with no reason to argue over any company offers. but to read about unions and viewpoints, you'd think it was so awful without them. certainly not in this case!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think i misplaced a comma in what you quoted. i meant it to say you can't make a blanket statement, but in this case, obviously jobs would be killed. that the union is in the wrong.

But you can make a blanket statement because most unions would rather kill non-union jobs if given the opportunity. Like politicians their own survival is more important to them than common good. Hey I understand why they are taking that position but it doesn't mean I agree with it or condone it.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Funny, in many other first world countries, every worker gets benefits like that.

It's called, "normal".

I laugh at the demonization of unions, by people that hardly mentioned them a year ago <g>

Oh, well, when the demonization of the Muslim Kenyan Non-Citizen Black President has been disproved, and the demonization of "death panel health care" has been disproved, you have to go with something new. Last year the Koch Brothers and the RGA and ALEC decided it would be unions, and passed out the talking points sheets at the annual convention for the governors to initiate at the state level. Politics power grabs. So it goes. GOP-TV (Faux News) got the memo, too, and started in training their listeners that unions are filled with "evil thugs". Those kindergarten teachers and 9-11 NY firefighters, yeah, those thugs! <g>

The GOP has always been good at messaging. Hell, Rupert Murdoch supported Obama, but Roger Ailes had a hissy fit of hate, and was making so much money for Rupert, he let Ailes run with the Obama-hate on Faux. The Tea Party is causing the regular GOP no end of pain, as the TP (formed by GOP operatives) got out of control and talk the talk, but fail to vote the vote the right way in Congress, but the GOP is taking them down one by one and regaining control (Rove against Perry and Bachmann, for example). You need compliance in the underlings to survive in the current GOP theocracy. The power elite aren't giving up any of it, especially to a bunch of fools who don't believe in climate change or evolution.

Kind of a double standard no? Unions are firefighters, police and kidy-garden teachers, but Corporations are evil and are not made up of workers and investors. The reason people are anti-union is they have seen them destroy the automobile industry and the majority of public schools in this country and are concerned about the rest.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

The reason people are anti-union is they have seen them destroy the automobile industry and the majority of public schools in this country and are concerned about the rest.

Unions have not single-handedly destroyed anything (let's talk frankly about the utterly incompetent and terrible management of some of the automobile companies that lead them to the brink far beyond any union pensions they gave to their employees). Let alone the public school system (witness the destruction of "no child left behind" and lack of funding). That's absurd hyperbole to blame the unions for corporate malfeasance. But it is exactly what the GOP wants you to think.

"Sure, we brought the US to the very brink of economic disaster with our Wall Street buddies but ... it was the unions fault! It was the Democrats fault! We are awesome business managers! In fact, what we need is even less regulation, and even less accountability! Then give us what little you have left, Social Security and Medicare, and let us manage that for you, too!" - the Republican Party, speaking for their corporate owners.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Unions have not single-handedly destroyed anything (let's talk frankly about the utterly incompetent and terrible management of some of the automobile companies that lead them to the brink far beyond any union pensions they gave to their employees). Let alone the public school system (witness the destruction of "no child left behind" and lack of funding). That's absurd hyperbole to blame the unions for corporate malfeasance. But it is exactly what the GOP wants you to think.

"Sure, we brought the US to the very brink of economic disaster with our Wall Street buddies but ... it was the unions fault! It was the Democrats fault! We are awesome business managers! In fact, what we need is even less regulation, and even less accountability! Then give us what little you have left, Social Security and Medicare, and let us manage that for you, too!" - the Republican Party, speaking for their corporate owners.

"Lack of funding" is the absurd. It costs more to send a kid to public school in Newark than it does to Yale. Money isn't the cure, though that is what the all powerful NJEA (insert any other state here) would have you think. Don't stop believing!