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[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Good grief. There is no "conspiracy". Look at the basic business model of every insurance company. Your contention is that insurance companies make money by paying out claims? You're nuts.

You contend that pharmaceutical companies make money by having their exclusive, most-expensive drugs come off patent and become generally available? You're nuts.

Insurance companies and drug companies control the healthcare in this nation - not patients and their doctors - we have the most expensive healthcare of every first world nation as a percentage of our GDP, and we have the least obtainable healthcare system of any first world nation. Insurance companies dictate doctors treatment plans for most conditions, not the doctors.

Every AAA rated first world country - other than ours - has nationalized healthcare.

That's not "right" or "left", it's simply a fact.

And if you want to remain on your Social Security disability, I strongly suggest you stop self-immolating, by supporting the party that labels you are a freeloader and wants to kick you off SSDI and end the program, and you start supporting the people who think you deserve SSDI and want the program to remain in place for you. I am completely amazed that you have spent two years on this board actively supporting the politicians that want to end your SSDI and leave you to fend for yourself.

They also have a very small percentage of our population. Makes it a bit easier. Oh yeah, things seem to be going very well for all of those countries too . Except Germany of course.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

They also have a very small percentage of our population. Makes it a bit easier. Oh yeah, things seem to be going very well for all of those countries too . Except Germany of course.

exactly. when someone goes on and on about health care in other countries and ignore's that fact... I completely disregard their opinion.

[Antitrust32]

I've lived in two countries with socialized medicine. Ireland and New Zealand. Both places made me long for American health care. The care was terrible and you have to wait FOREVER for appointments.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I've lived in two countries with socialized medicine. Ireland and New Zealand. Both places made me long for American health care. The care was terrible and you have to wait FOREVER for appointments.

Sort of like the 60 million people in America who have no insurance, and thus can only get minimal emergency care if that?

Oh, wait. No, it's not like that at all. You have insurance so you stroll right into a doctors office by just calling for an appointment.

We don't need to imagine what it's like for those terrible lazy people with cancer or lifetime disability or serious disease who can't get insurance, let alone regular medical care.

Most of the bankruptcies in this country are related to medical bills. Most of those bankrupt people have insurance.

America should be ashamed of our health care system, that's only for the elite and the "haves". And those trying to repeal minimal insurance company standards so they can no longer abuse their clients in certain ways to profit from them (the ACA) - what are you playing at? Do you hate - or care so very little - about your fellow Americans so very much, you want to deny them the basic human need of health care?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sort of like the 60 million people in America who have no insurance, and thus can only get minimal emergency care if that?

Oh, wait. No, it's not like that at all. You have insurance so you stroll right into a doctors office by just calling for an appointment.

We don't need to imagine what it's like for those terrible lazy people with cancer or lifetime disability or serious disease who can't get insurance, let alone regular medical care.

Most of the bankruptcies in this country are related to medical bills. Most of those bankrupt people have insurance.

America should be ashamed of our health care system, that's only for the elite and the "haves". And those trying to repeal minimal insurance company standards so they can no longer abuse their clients in certain ways to profit from them (the ACA) - what are you playing at? Do you hate - or care so very little - about your fellow Americans so very much, you want to deny them the basic human need of health care?

So I made a statement about how crappy socialized medicine is in New Zealand and Ireland... so that means I hate my fellow Americans?

do you hate yourself? You have so much anger. Try prozac or at the very least valium. You will be happy again.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

So I made a statement about how crappy socialized medicine is in New Zealand and Ireland... so that means I hate my fellow Americans?

If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, then I'd take it as the clearly broad statement it was intended to be.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

exactly. when someone goes on and on about health care in other countries and ignore's that fact... I completely disregard their opinion.

When someone goes on and on about the vast totality of healthcare in other countries around the world - cost, delivery, quality, etc. - based only upon their minimal personal experience with short-term work visas - I completely disregard their opinion

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

When someone goes on and on about the vast totality of healthcare in other countries around the world - cost, delivery, quality, etc. - based only upon their minimal personal experience with short-term work visas - I completely disregard their opinion

well at least I have personal experience.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

well at least I have personal experience.

All Indians walk in a row.

At least the one you saw does.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

They also have a very small percentage of our population. Makes it a bit easier. Oh yeah, things seem to be going very well for all of those countries too . Except Germany of course.

What number of people do you think is limiting for having a single payer system,and why? (not "nationally" provided health care)

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

What number of people do you think is limiting for having a single payer system,and why? (not "nationally" provided health care)

300MM is way too many, even half that is way too many. It would be a bureaucratic nightmare, like virtually everything else our government is currently responsible for. If the population growth continues at the rate over the last 30 years (mathematically it will expand much faster) we will have 450MM by 2040. Then what, huh?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

300MM is way too many, even half that is way too many.

Based upon what? Do you have anything to back up your purely arbitrary, pulled-from-a-hat choice of figures?

It would be a bureaucratic nightmare, like virtually everything else our government is currently responsible for.

The "government" is responsible for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, our veterans (TRICARE) and SCHIPS. They seem to do pretty damn well. Not perfect, but damn - those are some good programs. My parents get their Social Security check like clockwork on the same date every month. They go to the doctor, and submit their Medicare claims. No "bureaucratic nightmares" involved at all. Quite reliable, predictable and easy, in fact.

You want to eliminate them all, I suppose?

If the population growth continues at the rate over the last 30 years (mathematically it will expand much faster) we will have 450MM by 2040. Then what, huh?

Then we have to believe your arbitrary numbers have already been proven as true, why?

We could have more healthy people in the pool lowering cost and risk for everyone.

Or, population could level out, as is predicted by nearly everyone (not the growth you are saying will happen)

[Clip-Clop]

[quote] You never address anything realistically. Any and all real math is shot down or completely ignored. Any arguments that point out what is wrong are responded to with something meant to tug at the heartstrings. I feel bad for you, your life must be awful for you to spend so much time here trying to convince people that the federal government is and should be the cure all for everyone's problems.
Perhaps GE could donate their fair share and that would take care of an awful lot were the government capable, in any way, of handling money. Obama should just ask Immelt for the money that company should have paid just last year alone and solve these issues for millions of your downtrodden.
You are unable to learn or even look at things from any other perspective than your own. I am through debating with you, it is pointless. [quote]

Done here too.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

They also have a very small percentage of our population. Makes it a bit easier. Oh yeah, things seem to be going very well for all of those countries too . Except Germany of course.

i wonder how much money other countries put towards their defense programs, knowing how much of the worlds spending belongs solely to the u.s.