Investors lose a trillion dollars in one day

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

Baloney. You are not entitled to make up crap out of thin air. Facts matter.

First: we have no trouble paying our bills, We have no anticipation of trouble paying our bills in the future.

Plenty of countries have a worse debt to GDP ratio than we do (and have retained their AAA rating - oh, and all remaining current AAA rated countries have national health care, btw)

The only reason our creditors would cut us off is if the Tea Party got it's way, and we agreed to not pay our bills by not raising the debt ceiling. That nonsensical temper tantrum by the Tea Party is what caused S & P to downgrade us. It's not the financial facts (S & P was off by $2 trillion on our debt! Treasury correct them and they still downrated us, which is bs) - S & P downrated us because the Republican party is acting like irresponsible idiots.



More baloney.

Facts: the Democrats cut spending in every single deal on the table during the debt negotiations, it is the GOP Tea Party faction that refused the deals for $4 trillion, making us take the lesser deal for $2 trillion.

And your taxes have literally never been lower, and Obama has helped lower them.

Stop repeating the false right-wing lies. It's beyond absurd.

Bull Riot. I am not one of the 47% of people in the country who don't pay income taxes. I'm getting creamed.

We can currently pay the interest on the loans. Is that what you mean by "no trouble paying our bills"? When is the principal going to be reduced? It has not been reduced in 51 years! THAT is why the rating went down. And I have news for you - we don't deserve AA+ either.

We have to SPEND LESS THAN WE TAKE IN. Literally, not rhetorically: do the math!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Bull Riot. I am not one of the 47% of people in the country who don't pay income taxes. I'm getting creamed.

What is your tax bracket? The facts are, your taxes have never been lower.

If you want to pay zero, and are angry you think other people are getting something you are not, I suggest you move to another country. This is a society where we all contribute to our common good through income tax.

Alot of that 47% btw, as opposed to the Faux News screaming about welfare queens (left over from the Reagan years) are very, very wealthy people, who pay far less a percentage than you.

Why are you not mad at them? It makes no sense to me.

We can currently pay the interest on the loans. Is that what you mean by "no trouble paying our bills"? When is the principal going to be reduced? It has not been reduced in 51 years!

Yes, Joey, we have no trouble paying our bills. Yes, we have to curb spending.

But this has been two months of false, ginned-up Republican electoral rage about nothing. It's pure political theatre, meant to harm Obama.

We should have raised the debt ceiling routinely as we always do - as we have 79 times before - two months ago, then congress could have spent all the time they wanted on cutting things out of future spending. Congress didn't do that. The Republicans chose political theatre over helping this country. They are toast.

THAT is why the rating went down. And I have news for you - we don't deserve AA+ either.

Our rating went down because the Republicans spent two months in Kabuki theatre, and that's exactly what S & P said in their press release announcing it.

We have to SPEND LESS THAN WE TAKE IN. Literally, not rhetorically: do the math!

Then I suggest we raise our revenues back up to where they were before Bush gave it away. Because that's when we could spend less than what we took in. Bush decimated our income - that's the fact of it, and that alone with his wars s responsible for 1/2 our current debt.

You do the math - we cannot "cut" our way to prosperity. The math doesn't work. It's impossible. We need to have the income we had before Bush gave it away. Only a small portion of that is due to the recession.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

What is your tax bracket? The facts are, your taxes have never been lower.

If you want to pay zero, and are angry you think other people are getting something you are not, I suggest you move to another country. This is a society where we all contribute to our common good through income tax.

Alot of that 47% btw, as opposed to the Faux News screaming about welfare queens (left over from the Reagan years) are very, very wealthy people, who pay far less a percentage than you.

Why are you not mad at them? It makes no sense to me.



Yes, Joey, we have no trouble paying our bills. Yes, we have to curb spending.

But this has been two months of false, ginned-up Republican electoral rage about nothing. It's pure political theatre, meant to harm Obama.

We should have raised the debt ceiling routinely as we always do - as we have 79 times before - two months ago, then congress could have spent all the time they wanted on cutting things out of future spending. Congress didn't do that. The Republicans chose political theatre over helping this country. They are toast.



Our rating went down because the Republicans spent two months in Kabuki theatre, and that's exactly what S & P said in their press release announcing it.



Then I suggest we raise our revenues back up to where they were before Bush gave it away. Because that's when we could spend less than what we took in. Bush decimated our income - that's the fact of it, and that alone with his wars s responsible for 1/2 our current debt.

You do the math - we cannot "cut" our way to prosperity. The math doesn't work. It's impossible. We need to have the income we had before Bush gave it away. Only a small portion of that is due to the recession.

No that's the point - we don't ALL contribute. Half do nothing. The other half pays twice as much as it should. That's absurd - and it wasn't the conservatives that brought that situation into existence.

So you admit that "no trouble paying our bills" amounts to interest-only payments on a $14.5T debt. And those interest payments have and will continue to increase as a proportion of GDP. That is the mechanism for real default, real bankruptcy and ruin. Case closed.

Again with the talking points. Why can't you just say "taxes" instead of "revenues" and cease referring to the tax cuts as "giving away revenue"? It's as if you think the government has the right to all of everyone's money, and whatever pittance we're left with is due to their good graces. Your selection of words, how you use revenue, income, and give aways indicates that you are for government first and citizens a distant second.

[Antitrust32]

If Riot would have been around in the 1700's I believe she would have sided with the Brits.

tax tax tax tax

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

If Riot would have been around in the 1700's I believe she would have sided with the Brits.

tax tax tax tax

Really? Why? What have I ever said about taxing for no reason? What a made-up, nonsensical ad hominem attack. Stick to debating the opinions.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

No that's the point - we don't ALL contribute. Half do nothing. The other half pays twice as much as it should.

No, they don't pay "twice as much as they should", they pay the regular amount, their taxes have not gone up, they have gone down.
But our income has gone down because some people pay less than others.

And I am not worried about poverty-line people paying taxes. They should not. I am worried if you are in the 28% bracket, and Warren Buffet only pays 16% (as he has said he does) due to loopholes.

That's absurd - and it wasn't the conservatives that brought that situation into existence.

Actually yes, it was.

So you admit that "no trouble paying our bills" amounts to interest-only payments on a $14.5T debt. And those interest payments have and will continue to increase as a proportion of GDP. That is the mechanism for real default, real bankruptcy and ruin. Case closed.

Nope. Case closed only if one is simplistic and ignoring more than half the truth. We have no trouble paying our debt. Even yesterday, American treasuries were considered the safest haven in the world. The world is throwing money at us, at marginal low interest rates, begging us to borrow, as we are so reliable and safe.

Half the AAA rated countries by S & P have greater debt to GDP ratios than us. That is not the problem. The current problem resulting in the credit rating downgrade is due to the obstructive politicians in Washington - which is the Tea Party and the GOP who refuses to raise revenue (specifically outlined by S & P in their press release).

Bush cut our income markedly. We need that back.

If you want your taxes lowered, then I suggest you support removing loopholes from the wealthy, so everyone pays a relatively equal percentage, and the tax base is expanded.

Again with the talking points. Why can't you just say "taxes" instead of "revenues" and cease referring to the tax cuts as "giving away revenue"?

Adults, in the financial world use the word "revenue" to describe income. We get our income, as a country, from taxes. It's not a talking point, it's just the correct word to use.

You can increase revenue without raising the tax rates, but by closing loopholes. That's only a tax increase to the dogmatic narrow-minded Grover adherants. Which is primarily 2/3 of the Republican party.

It's as if you think the government has the right to all of everyone's money, and whatever pittance we're left with is due to their good graces.

Baloney. That is no where near what I think. What I think is that we live in a cooperative society, and our Constitution said our government has the power to tax for the common good. And we do, to make all our lives better.

Your selection of words, how you use revenue, income, and give aways indicates that you are for government first and citizens a distant second

No. It means you stick to the strict talking points you've been told to use.