Tea Party kicks Boehner in the teeth - again

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Obviously we need both jobs and very low debt. And we used to have both, so don't tell me we can't do it again if we make policy to do so.

We are in a slow recession recovery. We need jobs. Carrying debt right now is of little consequence.

JMS might be right. It is also true however that an economy where 47% of the people pay no income taxes is also destined to fail. The other 53% won't keep carrying the dead weight.

People don't pay income taxes unless they have income. They need jobs to have income. The middle class is now virtually non-existent. What drove this country in the past 50 years? An upwardly-mobile, spending middle class. It's gone. Walmart's revenues are even dropping off. Not even the poor have money any more. They have been bled dry.

Look up who gave the 1.4 trillion dollars in unfunded tax cuts during the past 10 years, and look up how much income tax the top 10 biggest companies in this country paid last year. Our revenues have never been lower.

Then wonder why the Tea Party and the Republican Party are fighting 100% against any revenue increases? And decreasing spending during a slow recession recovery? (and the Dems have gone over to that dark side, too, the fools)

More and more of them will go to the side where they can have the freebies. That will mean less people paying the bills. This is the mechanism by which the economy fails.

Less people paying the bills is directly due to the Bush Tax Cuts. They need to expire. You agree, right? BTW, your "Tea Party" is fighting that. Completely against anybody paying more taxes. Why do you support that craziness?

[paulo537]

Originally Posted by Riot

We are in a slow recession recovery. We need jobs. Carrying debt right now is of little consequence.

You really cannot truly believe this, can you?

For every expert who said the recession would last 2 years when it started, there was another who said it would last 5 years.

For every expert who said unemployment would ease after 6 months, there was another who predicted it would top out at 12%.

Same thing with the housing experts.

No one knows. If you had your way with policy AND IF the recession lasts another 3 years, debt service would go from 30% of total fed revenue now to 50% in 5 years.

At that point, the debt level would indeed become be inconsequential as you write because it it would be impossible to manage it and the dollar would be worth 50% of its' current diminished level.

At that time, the next fiscal debate would be how much of the debt should be monetized.

You are incredibly ignorant to think you can just keep spending more and more without there being consequence.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by paulo537

You really cannot truly believe this, can you?

For every expert who said the recession would last 2 years when it started, there was another who said it would last 5 years.

For every expert who said unemployment would ease after 6 months, there was another who predicted it would top out at 12%.

Same thing with the housing experts.

No one knows. If you had your way with policy AND IF the recession lasts another 3 years, debt service would go from 30% of total fed revenue now to 50% in 5 years.

At that point, the debt level would indeed become be inconsequential as you write because it it would be impossible to manage it and the dollar would be worth 50% of its' current diminished level.

At that time, the next fiscal debate would be how much of the debt should be monetized.

You are incredibly ignorant to think you can just keep spending more and more without there being consequence.

Riot believes in the government creating jobs with more government spending. Debt is no big deal. We need rail projects, more government spending to keep the economy going. The economy will never fix itself. We need to the government to fix it. We will let someone else worry about the debt problems we create today. It is the american way or at least was up until most people woke up a few years ago. Take money from the wealthy and create more government albeit temporary jobs.

[paulo537]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Riot believes in the government creating jobs with more government spending. Debt is no big deal. We need rail projects, more government spending to keep the economy going. The economy will never fix itself. We need to the government to fix it. We will let someone else worry about the debt problems we create today. It is the american way or at least was up until most people woke up a few years ago. Take money from the wealthy and create more government albeit temporary jobs.

I have no problem raising wage income, dividend income and estate taxes on the wealthy to temper the deficit. None. Do it, get it done, then at some point, the other guys win both branches and the prez and it gets undone. To me, the most useless money out there is that 3rd/4th generation wealth that does nothing for anyone other than people who did nothing or little to earn it in the first place.

The biggest problem is that Obama is just gutless. He had 18 months to pass legislation that would have sunset the bush tax cuts and cut corporate tax loopholes but he didn't have the stones to do it. He did the same thing on health care when he signed off on a piece of crap bill when he could have done so much more.

Either party is the same to me. They are all rats.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Riot believes in the government creating jobs with more government spending. Debt is no big deal. We need rail projects, more government spending to keep the economy going. The economy will never fix itself. We need to the government to fix it. We will let someone else worry about the debt problems we create today. It is the american way or at least was up until most people woke up a few years ago. Take money from the wealthy and create more government albeit temporary jobs.

Yes, I most certainly do believe in the government creating jobs. Money is the cheapest it's been right now, the government should issue bonds and institute a massive infrastructure jobs bill. The infrastructure has to be repaired, better to do it with cheap dollars rather than expensive in the future. Oh, yeah, and that putting millions back to work would be cool, too

And there is nothing wrong with temporary jobs during a recession. It keeps money in people's pockets, keeps businesses from going out of business, etc.

I never said "debt is no big deal" - that's your silly saying. We worry about the debt problems after our economy starts booming, we have people with jobs paying taxes again, etc.

No - the economy isn't "helping itself", is it? The Bush administration oversaw massive tax cuts to business and massive job layoffs as money was not reinvested in businesses, but taken as inexpensive capital gains.

It is the american way or at least was up until most people woke up a few years ago.

Yes, "most people" woke up and discovered we were 1.4 trillion in debt due to George W. Bush and Republican reckless spending, while slashing our income by 1/4.

I suggest you read this article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-on-obama.html

[paulo537]

Originally Posted by Riot

The infrastructure has to be repaired,

Says who?

What exactly is wrong with the infrastructure?

For that matter, what exactly is "the infrastructure?" This has always made me curious.

Can you explain this to us all?

Didn't we already spent a half a billion dollars on this stuff through the stimulus package? How did that work out for jobs?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by paulo537

Says who?

What exactly is wrong with the infrastructure?

For that matter, what exactly is "the infrastructure?" This has always made me curious.

Can you explain this to us all?

Didn't we already spent a half a billion dollars on this stuff through the stimulus package? How did that work out for jobs?

Oh. My. God.

God help this country.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, I most certainly do believe in the government creating jobs. Money is the cheapest it's been right now, the government should issue bonds and institute a massive infrastructure jobs bill. The infrastructure has to be repaired, better to do it with cheap dollars rather than expensive in the future. Oh, yeah, and that putting millions back to work would be cool, too

And there is nothing wrong with temporary jobs during a recession. It keeps money in people's pockets, keeps businesses from going out of business, etc.

I never said "debt is no big deal" - that's your silly saying. We worry about the debt problems after our economy starts booming, we have people with jobs paying taxes again, etc.

No - the economy isn't "helping itself", is it? The Bush administration oversaw massive tax cuts to business and massive job layoffs as money was not reinvested in businesses, but taken as inexpensive capital gains.



Yes, "most people" woke up and discovered we were 1.4 trillion in debt due to George W. Bush and Republican reckless spending, while slashing our income by 1/4.

I suggest you read this article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-on-obama.html

We have a fundamental difference of opinion. You believe the government should create jobs. I believe in less government. I do not believe we need the government to create jobs. If the banking world wasn't so scared of the current government oversight and actually took on a slight bit of risk the economy would be just fine by itself, however that is not the case currently. People did not wake up because of the spending by Bush and the republicans people woke up when they realized that their home was no longer their piggy bank. People actually decided to save $ instead of spending more than they brought in. A lesson that washington needs to now learn. It can't change over night but we have to start somewhere...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

We have a fundamental difference of opinion. You believe the government should create jobs. I believe in less government. I do not believe we need the government to create jobs. If the banking world wasn't so scared of the current government oversight and actually took on a slight bit of risk the economy would be just fine by itself, however that is not the case currently. People did not wake up because of the spending by Bush and the republicans people woke up when they realized that their home was no longer their piggy bank. People actually decided to save $ instead of spending more than they brought in. A lesson that washington needs to now learn. It can't change over night but we have to start somewhere...

Why do you think there was not massive economic growth over the Bush administration? Let's just look at the first six years or so.

There were massive tax cuts, massive business incentives, wars (face it, wars provide economic incentives). There is no denying that the government was extremely "business friendly".

What was keeping business contracting and losing hundreds of thousands of jobs in that environment?

Our income, before the Presidential election of 2008 even happened, dropped to only 15% or so of our GDP, when it always had been 18-20%.

In the late 1950's, government-sponsored education and the concept of the mortgage allowed thousands of former GI's to get education and buy a first house in the suburbs. In the late 1960's, in order to keep up, they sent the wife to work and get a second income. In the 1990's, they second-mortgaged and took money out of the house for disposable goods. You are right, a lot of the slow recession is because the middle class and lower classes are plumb out of cash to spend at this point in time. And there's hardly a middle class left. But that didn't cause our recession, although it's contributing to the slow recovery. The middle and lower class are not currently sitting on millions in savings, preventing recovery.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Riot

Why do you think there was not massive economic growth over the Bush administration? Let's just look at the first six years or so.

There were massive tax cuts, massive business incentives, wars (face it, wars provide economic incentives). There is no denying that the government was extremely "business friendly".

What was keeping business contracting and losing hundreds of thousands of jobs in that environment?

Our income, before the Presidential election of 2008 even happened, dropped to only 15% or so of our GDP, when it always had been 18-20%.

In the late 1950's, government-sponsored education and the concept of the mortgage allowed thousands of former GI's to get education and buy a first house in the suburbs. In the late 1960's, in order to keep up, they sent the wife to work and get a second income. In the 1990's, they second-mortgaged and took money out of the house for disposable goods. You are right, a lot of the slow recession is because the middle class and lower classes are plumb out of cash to spend at this point in time. And there's hardly a middle class left. But that didn't cause our recession, although it's contributing to the slow recovery. The middle and lower class are not currently sitting on millions in savings, preventing recovery.

The housing bubble bursting played a big part in causing the recession. People borrowing $$ that they couldn't afford to pay back, and banks loaning $$ without checking credit history (or ignoring it). Now our benevolent Govt. who says it can't pay it's bills, wants to borrow more $$ to pay it's bills. Social Security was supposed to be solvent for years to come according to the Dems. Obama says he can't guarantee SS checks will be mailed out first week in Aug unless he's given the authority to borrow more $$. Somebody is lying. Obama is acting like a child in a toy store who is being told to put a toy back . News Flash .. our credit rating is going to be degraded even with a raise in the debt ceiling. We have to get spending under control. Would you loan $$ to someone who can't pay their bills?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by paulo537

You really cannot truly believe this, can you?
...
You are incredibly ignorant to think you can just keep spending more and more without there being consequence.

I didn't say that. So you can save the "ignorant" comment for your own self's inability to read, thanks.

I said that being in a slow recovery, carrying debt right now is of little consequence. You do not stop spending in a slow recovery or recession - unless you want a depression. Yes, we have to address long-term debt, but the long-term debt is not of immediate concern, until we are in a better recession recovery and have a stronger economy.

[paulo537]

[quote=Riot;795020]

do not stop spending in a slow recovery or recession - unless you want a depression. QUOTE]

Who says anyone will stop spending. Your inability to understand is amazing. The point is simple, stop spending MORE.

You really, truly don't get it.

You write junk like building new railroads will help. Are you insane? Do you know how many agencies and hands that money will go through before anyone gets a good train ride? It will never happen.

You must have family money. No one spends money like a bona fide limousine liberal.

[Riot]

[quote=paulo537;795023]

Originally Posted by Riot

do not stop spending in a slow recovery or recession - unless you want a depression. QUOTE]

Who says anyone will stop spending. Your inability to understand is amazing. The point is simple, stop spending MORE.

You really, truly don't get it.

You write junk like building new railroads will help. Are you insane? Do you know how many agencies and hands that money will go through before anyone gets a good train ride? It will never happen.

You must have family money. No one spends money like a bona fide limousine liberal.

Let's get rid of all your snarky personal insults, Paulo, and your idiotic ad hominem crap, and see what you've written about the economy:

.


.

Thanks for playing, Paulo. Why don't you join us later, when you have an idea or two and want to discuss the economy?

Oh, and regarding spending cuts? (not people spending, keep up here) I can only assume you have been paying zero attention to the last few weeks of debt ceiling discussion.

[paulo537]

[quote=Riot;795025]

Originally Posted by paulo537

Let's get rid of all your snarky personal insults, Paulo, and your idiotic ad hominem crap, and see what you've written about the economy:


Thanks for playing, Paulo. Why don't you join us later, when you have an idea or two and want to discuss the economy?

Oh, and regarding spending cuts? (not people spending, keep up here) I can only assume you have been paying zero attention to the last few weeks of debt ceiling discussion.

Look, I am not stupid.

There is no debt ceiling discussion that does not pale in comparison to the partisan politics that accompany it.

You may very well enjoy going through life as a puppy who chases one leaf blowing in the wind until the next one grabs its attention but some of us choose not to do so.

That isn't my fault.

Two years ago, the stimulus package was "Vital for the security of America."

One year ago, getting any Healthcare bill passed was "vital for the security of America."

This year, it's the same thing.

Stop pulling out your hair and setting yourself on fire.

A deal will get done. that's for certain.

It's also certain it will be a shitty bill.

[Riot]

[quote=paulo537;795028]

Originally Posted by Riot

Look, I am not stupid.

There is no debt ceiling discussion that does not pale in comparison to the partisan politics that accompany it.

You may very well enjoy going through life as a puppy who chases one leaf blowing in the wind until the next one grabs its attention but some of us choose not to do so.

That isn't my fault.

Two years ago, the stimulus package was "Vital for the security of America."

One year ago, getting any Healthcare bill passed was "vital for the security of America."

This year, it's the same thing.

Stop pulling out your hair and setting yourself on fire.

A deal will get done. that's for certain.

It's also certain it will be a shitty bill.

You just can't help yourself, huh? Okay, let's discuss our economy and political world like you do!

You may enjoy going through life as someone who is incredibly ignorant and superficial, but some of us choose not to be so. Your teen-aged, "I hate everyone, teh government all sux!" angst surely makes yourself feel better, and obviously self-rightously smug, but doesn't really move the country forward.