Tea Party kicks Boehner in the teeth - again

[joeydb]

So... how are we going to pay back this debt with no jobs???

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

So... how are we going to pay back this debt with no jobs???

Which do you think is more important? Jobs or the debt?

As JMS said, "An economy where 3% of the people have 98% of the money is destained to fail."

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

Which do you think is more important? Jobs or the debt?

As JMS said, "An economy where 3% of the people have 98% of the money is destained to fail."

Obviously we need both jobs and very low debt. And we used to have both, so don't tell me we can't do it again if we make policy to do so.

JMS might be right. It is also true however that an economy where 47% of the people pay no income taxes is also destined to fail. The other 53% won't keep carrying the dead weight. More and more of them will go to the side where they can have the freebies. That will mean less people paying the bills. This is the mechanism by which the economy fails.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Obviously we need both jobs and very low debt. And we used to have both, so don't tell me we can't do it again if we make policy to do so.

We are in a slow recession recovery. We need jobs. Carrying debt right now is of little consequence.

JMS might be right. It is also true however that an economy where 47% of the people pay no income taxes is also destined to fail. The other 53% won't keep carrying the dead weight.

People don't pay income taxes unless they have income. They need jobs to have income. The middle class is now virtually non-existent. What drove this country in the past 50 years? An upwardly-mobile, spending middle class. It's gone. Walmart's revenues are even dropping off. Not even the poor have money any more. They have been bled dry.

Look up who gave the 1.4 trillion dollars in unfunded tax cuts during the past 10 years, and look up how much income tax the top 10 biggest companies in this country paid last year. Our revenues have never been lower.

Then wonder why the Tea Party and the Republican Party are fighting 100% against any revenue increases? And decreasing spending during a slow recession recovery? (and the Dems have gone over to that dark side, too, the fools)

More and more of them will go to the side where they can have the freebies. That will mean less people paying the bills. This is the mechanism by which the economy fails.

Less people paying the bills is directly due to the Bush Tax Cuts. They need to expire. You agree, right? BTW, your "Tea Party" is fighting that. Completely against anybody paying more taxes. Why do you support that craziness?

[paulo537]

Originally Posted by Riot

We are in a slow recession recovery. We need jobs. Carrying debt right now is of little consequence.

You really cannot truly believe this, can you?

For every expert who said the recession would last 2 years when it started, there was another who said it would last 5 years.

For every expert who said unemployment would ease after 6 months, there was another who predicted it would top out at 12%.

Same thing with the housing experts.

No one knows. If you had your way with policy AND IF the recession lasts another 3 years, debt service would go from 30% of total fed revenue now to 50% in 5 years.

At that point, the debt level would indeed become be inconsequential as you write because it it would be impossible to manage it and the dollar would be worth 50% of its' current diminished level.

At that time, the next fiscal debate would be how much of the debt should be monetized.

You are incredibly ignorant to think you can just keep spending more and more without there being consequence.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by paulo537

You really cannot truly believe this, can you?

For every expert who said the recession would last 2 years when it started, there was another who said it would last 5 years.

For every expert who said unemployment would ease after 6 months, there was another who predicted it would top out at 12%.

Same thing with the housing experts.

No one knows. If you had your way with policy AND IF the recession lasts another 3 years, debt service would go from 30% of total fed revenue now to 50% in 5 years.

At that point, the debt level would indeed become be inconsequential as you write because it it would be impossible to manage it and the dollar would be worth 50% of its' current diminished level.

At that time, the next fiscal debate would be how much of the debt should be monetized.

You are incredibly ignorant to think you can just keep spending more and more without there being consequence.

Riot believes in the government creating jobs with more government spending. Debt is no big deal. We need rail projects, more government spending to keep the economy going. The economy will never fix itself. We need to the government to fix it. We will let someone else worry about the debt problems we create today. It is the american way or at least was up until most people woke up a few years ago. Take money from the wealthy and create more government albeit temporary jobs.

[paulo537]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Riot believes in the government creating jobs with more government spending. Debt is no big deal. We need rail projects, more government spending to keep the economy going. The economy will never fix itself. We need to the government to fix it. We will let someone else worry about the debt problems we create today. It is the american way or at least was up until most people woke up a few years ago. Take money from the wealthy and create more government albeit temporary jobs.

I have no problem raising wage income, dividend income and estate taxes on the wealthy to temper the deficit. None. Do it, get it done, then at some point, the other guys win both branches and the prez and it gets undone. To me, the most useless money out there is that 3rd/4th generation wealth that does nothing for anyone other than people who did nothing or little to earn it in the first place.

The biggest problem is that Obama is just gutless. He had 18 months to pass legislation that would have sunset the bush tax cuts and cut corporate tax loopholes but he didn't have the stones to do it. He did the same thing on health care when he signed off on a piece of crap bill when he could have done so much more.

Either party is the same to me. They are all rats.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Riot believes in the government creating jobs with more government spending. Debt is no big deal. We need rail projects, more government spending to keep the economy going. The economy will never fix itself. We need to the government to fix it. We will let someone else worry about the debt problems we create today. It is the american way or at least was up until most people woke up a few years ago. Take money from the wealthy and create more government albeit temporary jobs.

Yes, I most certainly do believe in the government creating jobs. Money is the cheapest it's been right now, the government should issue bonds and institute a massive infrastructure jobs bill. The infrastructure has to be repaired, better to do it with cheap dollars rather than expensive in the future. Oh, yeah, and that putting millions back to work would be cool, too

And there is nothing wrong with temporary jobs during a recession. It keeps money in people's pockets, keeps businesses from going out of business, etc.

I never said "debt is no big deal" - that's your silly saying. We worry about the debt problems after our economy starts booming, we have people with jobs paying taxes again, etc.

No - the economy isn't "helping itself", is it? The Bush administration oversaw massive tax cuts to business and massive job layoffs as money was not reinvested in businesses, but taken as inexpensive capital gains.

It is the american way or at least was up until most people woke up a few years ago.

Yes, "most people" woke up and discovered we were 1.4 trillion in debt due to George W. Bush and Republican reckless spending, while slashing our income by 1/4.

I suggest you read this article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-on-obama.html

[Riot]

Originally Posted by paulo537

You really cannot truly believe this, can you?
...
You are incredibly ignorant to think you can just keep spending more and more without there being consequence.

I didn't say that. So you can save the "ignorant" comment for your own self's inability to read, thanks.

I said that being in a slow recovery, carrying debt right now is of little consequence. You do not stop spending in a slow recovery or recession - unless you want a depression. Yes, we have to address long-term debt, but the long-term debt is not of immediate concern, until we are in a better recession recovery and have a stronger economy.

[paulo537]

[quote=Riot;795020]

do not stop spending in a slow recovery or recession - unless you want a depression. QUOTE]

Who says anyone will stop spending. Your inability to understand is amazing. The point is simple, stop spending MORE.

You really, truly don't get it.

You write junk like building new railroads will help. Are you insane? Do you know how many agencies and hands that money will go through before anyone gets a good train ride? It will never happen.

You must have family money. No one spends money like a bona fide limousine liberal.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Obviously we need both jobs and very low debt. And we used to have both, so don't tell me we can't do it again if we make policy to do so.

JMS might be right. It is also true however that an economy where 47% of the people pay no income taxes is also destined to fail. The other 53% won't keep carrying the dead weight. More and more of them will go to the side where they can have the freebies. That will mean less people paying the bills. This is the mechanism by which the economy fails.

Joey there are plenty of uber rich folks in the 47%... Don't kid yourself.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by jms62

Joey there are plenty of uber rich folks in the 47%... Don't kid yourself.

Well, I'm not one of them, and I'm not for that. This is one reason why I think a flat tax is a good idea. One rate - NO DEDUCTIONS for ANYBODY. No huge tax code to exploit or write in loopholes. No bracket creep where people do things to hide income to keep from getting into higher percentage withholding.

It is fair by definition - everyone pays the same proportional amount. You could exempt the first $40,000 or whatever makes sense, but anything over that is computed by a simple equation. The enforcement gets that much easier too.