Chapa gets 5 year ban

[Riot]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Please at least admit that you see the disconnect you are fostering, that a 5-year suspension for using a buzzer and a drug test to get back into racing are not directly-related.

I never said they were directly related. The rocket scientists here made that leap all by themselves.

I said that trying to come back after five year suspensions - which are essentially equal to, "nice to know ya, have fun finding a new vocation in your different life" - should be a strict probation.

And yeah, I would include drug testing every 3 months as part of it. For everyone who wants a license reinstated: trainers, exercise, jocks, all of them.

They run the felony search again when one reapplies, but I see nothing wrong with making sure that someone who has done something so heinous that they were banned from the sport for 5 years is crystal clean on all accounts if they try to return to it.

Yes, that is apparently a really, really amazingly complex-stupid-weird-crazy idea to some of you. Gasp.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Riot

Small technicality to your argument, tracks are not "the government".

If everybody has the same penalty, as I was describing, it's fair under your (obtuse) point. As proven by the multitude of private companies who already require drug testing on a regular basis.

We can get as technical as you want, you are way out of your league. Let's start with the basics, tracks are not the government (though some like NYRA are public corporations or entities), but derive their right to run parimutual races through licensing from the State. Drug testing those under a government license invokes the Fourth Amendment right to be free from illegal searches and seizures as well as due process of law.

Originally Posted by Riot

I never said they were directly related. The rocket scientists here made that leap all by themselves.

I said that trying to come back after five year suspensions - which are essentially equal to, "nice to know ya, have fun finding a new vocation in your different life" - should be a strict probation.

And yeah, I would include drug testing every 3 months as part of it. For everyone who wants a license reinstated: trainers, exercise, jocks, all of them.

They run the felony search again when one reapplies, but I see nothing wrong with making sure that someone who has done something so heinous that they were banned from the sport for 5 years is crystal clean on all accounts if they try to return to it.

Yes, that is apparently a really, really amazingly complex-stupid-weird-crazy idea to some of you. Gasp.

You may see nothing wrong with it, but the law does. You are clearly the most obstinate person on this board. You are right but everyone else, including the rule of law, is wrong.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by pointman

We can get as technical as you want, you are way out of your league. Let's start with the basics, tracks are not the government (though some like NYRA are public corporations or entities), but derive their right to run parimutual races through licensing from the State. Drug testing those under a government license invokes the Fourth Amendment right to be free from illegal searches and seizures as well as due process of law.

You may see nothing wrong with it, but the law does. You are clearly the most obstinate person on this board. You are right but everyone else, including the rule of law, is wrong.

Geeshus cripes. Stop attributing your imaginary crap to me. I haven't talked much about the legality, or not, of drug testing, let alone aggressively tried to defend any legal position on it.

So your trying to attribute "obstinante" to me, pretending I'm insisting upon a legal point, is absurd and ridiculous.

You might notice that nearly all tracks are quite free to set their own rules, within the providence of their individual state laws. Tracks tend to be little fifedoms. As private companies can require drug tests of employees, tracks have and can and do currently require drug tests of some licensees under particular circumstances. I doubt that adding that penalty in to certain suspensions, and incorporating it within government rules, would be taken down. Perhaps it would be challenged, and would be removed. That may well be - I've never said otherwise (in spite of your imagination and accusation that makes it seem so). But so far suspensions, probations with required drug testing has stood up at multiple tracks for individuals.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

I never said they were directly related. The rocket scientists here made that leap all by themselves.

I said that trying to come back after five year suspensions - which are essentially equal to, "nice to know ya, have fun finding a new vocation in your different life" - should be a strict probation.

Personally I'd like to see him burn a koran to make sure he didn't visit any terrorist training camps during those 5 years. You know since he liked mechanical devices