Updating the Guerrero Numbers

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Haha...it's definitely helping them alright.

Sure its helping.... It's helping them put on more mass than their skeletons can support.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

Sure its helping.... It's helping them put on more mass than their skeletons can support.

You do realize that anabolics are used for healing injuries right? When used properly anabolic steroids are beneficial for racehorses in training. Of course since Mr G seems to be using them in spite of a ban on them the postive attributes are kind of a sidebar.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You do realize that anabolics are used for healing injuries right? When used properly anabolic steroids are beneficial for racehorses in training. Of course since Mr G seems to be using them in spite of a ban on them the postive attributes are kind of a sidebar.

So you figure they arent testing his horses for steriods

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

So you figure they arent testing his horses for steriods

They aren't testing for the right ones.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You do realize that anabolics are used for healing injuries right? When used properly anabolic steroids are beneficial for racehorses in training. Of course since Mr G seems to be using them in spite of a ban on them the postive attributes are kind of a sidebar.

Yes I do know that but do you also agree with my point being valid if they are misused on a healthy horse?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

Yes I do know that but do you also agree with my point being valid if they are misused on a healthy horse?

Any medication that is misused can be dangerous. Just listen to the drug ads on TV when they list the potential side effects.... "may cause strokes and possibly death in rare occasions"...

The advantage steroids give someone who has them when others dont is 1. recover from injuries (however minor) faster and 2. recover from work better, allowing the trainer to train harder with out the the usual repercussions.

If you watch his horses train and his pattern where he claims one and usually takes his time before running them back (allowing the steroids to work) and that the 2nd race after the claim is a lot of time even better than the first you have to figure that he is using steroids. That is exactly how you would do it if you had an anabolic that wasn't being detected.

Can continued abuse of steroids lead to breakdown of the skeletal system? Sure. But driving cars can lead to accidents too.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Any medication that is misused can be dangerous. Just listen to the drug ads on TV when they list the potential side effects.... "may cause strokes and possibly death in rare occasions"...

The advantage steroids give someone who has them when others dont is 1. recover from injuries (however minor) faster and 2. recover from work better, allowing the trainer to train harder with out the the usual repercussions.

If you watch his horses train and his pattern where he claims one and usually takes his time before running them back (allowing the steroids to work) and that the 2nd race after the claim is a lot of time even better than the first you have to figure that he is using steroids. That is exactly how you would do it if you had an anabolic that wasn't being detected.

Can continued abuse of steroids lead to breakdown of the skeletal system? Sure. But driving cars can lead to accidents too.

Okay, stupid questions but please be nice. Are there similar side effects to horses as there are to humans in terms of disposition? Sterility? Are there major differences in what is given to females and males and are the effects the same in each? Are there any obvious "tells" in terms of appearance?

[Split Rock]

The guy who mentioned PETA going after these trainers is not that far out of line. While PETA is litered with a bunch of nutcases, at least I know their bark has some bite.

Remember a few years back after the Eight Belles fiaso, the government was getting involved to clean up the sport? Man, did that disappear, didn't it? I also find it interesting that Larry Jones, who seems like a good guy but wins at far too high a percentage to be doing it legitimately, "retired" right about the time these investigations were going to get into full gear. I find it very interesting that he's returned to the sport after the "noise" has stopped. He kind of slithered back into the game without anyone really noticing. No one finds that coincidental?

Bottom line, almost all of the high percentage trainers are taking an edge. Dirtballs like this Guerrero pig is over the top. But there is no way that Baffert, etc etc aren't using something, as well. Otherwise, they'd be the greatest trainer of all time when they win at such a high percentage against those other trainers that are cheating.

Only one trainer we KNOW isn't cheating. Jack Van Berg.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

The guy who mentioned PETA going after these trainers is not that far out of line. While PETA is litered with a bunch of nutcases, at least I know their bark has some bite.

Remember a few years back after the Eight Belles fiaso, the government was getting involved to clean up the sport? Man, did that disappear, didn't it? I also find it interesting that Larry Jones, who seems like a good guy but wins at far too high a percentage to be doing it legitimately, "retired" right about the time these investigations were going to get into full gear. I find it very interesting that he's returned to the sport after the "noise" has stopped. He kind of slithered back into the game without anyone really noticing. No one finds that coincidental?

Bottom line, almost all of the high percentage trainers are taking an edge. Dirtballs like this Guerrero pig is over the top. But there is no way that Baffert, etc etc aren't using something, as well. Otherwise, they'd be the greatest trainer of all time when they win at such a high percentage against those other trainers that are cheating.

Only one trainer we KNOW isn't cheating. Jack Van Berg.

Yeah, Larry Jones retired, his wife took over and she still won with him calling the shots from the backround.

PETA isn't intelligent enough to make something like this work and they aren't interested in doing it....unless there is a lot of press in it for them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

The guy who mentioned PETA going after these trainers is not that far out of line. While PETA is litered with a bunch of nutcases, at least I know their bark has some bite.

Remember a few years back after the Eight Belles fiaso, the government was getting involved to clean up the sport? Man, did that disappear, didn't it? I also find it interesting that Larry Jones, who seems like a good guy but wins at far too high a percentage to be doing it legitimately, "retired" right about the time these investigations were going to get into full gear. I find it very interesting that he's returned to the sport after the "noise" has stopped. He kind of slithered back into the game without anyone really noticing. No one finds that coincidental?

Bottom line, almost all of the high percentage trainers are taking an edge. Dirtballs like this Guerrero pig is over the top. But there is no way that Baffert, etc etc aren't using something, as well. Otherwise, they'd be the greatest trainer of all time when they win at such a high percentage against those other trainers that are cheating.

Only one trainer we KNOW isn't cheating. Jack Van Berg.

Are you really this stupid? The "noise" has stopped? Did you miss the little bill introduced in Congress a few weeks back? Do you really think that Larry Jones took some time off to duck some supposed investigation?

While I don't doubt that there are those taking an edge, Guerrero is obvious, people like you who think they really "know" what is going on are usually completely off-base.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay, stupid questions but please be nice. Are there similar side effects to horses as there are to humans in terms of disposition? Sterility? Are there major differences in what is given to females and males and are the effects the same in each? Are there any obvious "tells" in terms of appearance?

The big difference between steroids in humans and horses is the dosage level and frequency of use.

I have read where bodybuilders would cycle on for 21 straight days. You would never do that with a horse. Humans actually take more on a monthly basis than you would give a horse. If you gave a horse the same amount as a bodybuilder not even taking into consideration the difference in size yeah you would have a major problem with disposition.

I suppose that if you gave large doses to female horse for an extended period of time you may have sterility issues but I am not sure about colts.

You can surely tell horses that have been given large doses of steroids especially in young horses that appear too developed for their age (yearlings/young 2 yo's). And now that the vast majority of racehorses dont have them in their system those that do certainly stick out, at least to people who look at horses all the time.