Another Brilliant Plan Out of WI

[wiphan]

I like the fact that Obama is a deficit cutting King and Scott Walker is the Devil.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

I like the fact that Obama is a deficit cutting King and Scott Walker is the Devil.

I missed your explaination of your absolute statement that it's Obama that has increased the budget. Still waiting for your dissection of the budget years you posted, and Obama's contribution to each.

[Danzig]

alright coach, i can't figure it out.

who is that in your avatar?

Originally Posted by Danzig

alright coach, i can't figure it out.

who is that in your avatar?

Nathan Mayer Rothschild

[Danzig]

i see, thanks.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

I missed your explaination of your absolute statement that it's Obama that has increased the budget. Still waiting for your dissection of the budget years you posted, and Obama's contribution to each.

How about the Stimulus Package? Did that increase the budget deficit with no real stimulus or benefit?

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) asked the Congressional Budget Office to estimate the impact of permanently extending the 20 most popular provisions of the stimulus bill. What did the CBO find? The true 10 year cost of the stimulus bill $2.527 trillion in in spending with another $744 billion cost in debt servicing. Total bill for the Generational Theft Act: $3.27 trillion

But again Obama is a deficit cutting king and everything is Bush's fault.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by wiphan

How about the Stimulus Package? Did that increase the budget deficit with no real stimulus or benefit?

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) asked the Congressional Budget Office to estimate the impact of permanently extending the 20 most popular provisions of the stimulus bill. What did the CBO find? The true 10 year cost of the stimulus bill $2.527 trillion in in spending with another $744 billion cost in debt servicing. Total bill for the Generational Theft Act: $3.27 trillion

But again Obama is a deficit cutting king and everything is Bush's fault.

amazing that in 8 years, even with 9-11 the debt raised almost $5 trillion under W Bush and with just one misguided program Obama adds $3.27 trillion. And some still bill it as a success.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

amazing that in 8 years, even with 9-11 the debt raised almost $5 trillion under W Bush and with just one misguided program Obama adds $3.27 trillion. And some still bill it as a success.

And some are so blinded to disliking Obama they dismiss the reality of our financial situation and not only what got us here, but what is costing us big in borrowed money and interest payments over now and years to come.

It sure as hell wasn't Obama.

Bush more than doubled our national debt in 6 years. Obama kept us out of a depression, using a necessary stimulus package that most say wasn't even enough as the recession is a slow recovery.

The stimulus packages cost are a tiny part of our national debt obligation - the cost of which most is already gone, and will be even more so within 2 years - while the borrowing with interest to pay for the Bush debaucle of credit card charging and giving away our revenue is more than half, and is with us for years.

Hard to spin reality. Calling Obama the big spender for domestic spending (which he has cut, including Medicare, although discretionary is only like 16% of our budget) and stimulus - both comprising only a tiny portion of our debt obligation - is ludicrous and not supported by any facts.

The below chart clearly shows how tiny the cost of the stimulus and bailouts were, and how terribly expensive and disastrous increasing spending while cutting our revenue was - because we had to borrow that money with interest, and we are paying it back to China and others forever.

It's the dark gold on this chart that is borrowed money, with interest, that is increasing over time. Thank you, George W. Bush. You didn't even give us a kiss. And yes, Obama should have allowed the tax cuts to expire, so we could already be paying this off. That is essential - that we regain that revenue stream.

That is the threat to our grandchildren. Blaming it on "Obama spending!" is simply false.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

And some are so blinded to disliking Obama they dismiss the reality of our financial situation and not only what got us here, but what is costing us big in borrowed money and interest payments over now and years to come.

It sure as hell wasn't Obama.

Bush more than doubled our national debt in 6 years. Obama kept us out of a depression, using a necessary stimulus package that most say wasn't even enough as the recession is a slow recovery.

The stimulus packages cost are a tiny part of our national debt obligation - the cost of which most is already gone, and will be even more so within 2 years - while the borrowing with interest to pay for the Bush debaucle of credit card charging and giving away our revenue is more than half, and is with us for years.

Hard to spin reality. Calling Obama the big spender for domestic spending (which he has cut, including Medicare, although discretionary is only like 16% of our budget) and stimulus - both comprising only a tiny portion of our debt obligation - is ludicrous and not supported by any facts.

The below chart clearly shows how tiny the cost of the stimulus and bailouts were, and how terribly expensive and disastrous increasing spending while cutting our revenue was - because we had to borrow that money with interest, and we are paying it back to China and others forever.

It's the dark gold on this chart that is borrowed money, with interest, that is increasing over time. Thank you, George W. Bush. You didn't even give us a kiss. And yes, Obama should have allowed the tax cuts to expire, so we could already be paying this off. That is essential - that we regain that revenue stream.

That is the threat to our grandchildren. Blaming it on "Obama spending!" is simply false.

again stop with the made up chart and deal with

2012 United States federal budget - $3.7 trillion (submitted 2011 by President Obama)
2011 United States federal budget - $3.8 trillion (submitted 2010 by President Obama)
2010 United States federal budget - $3.6 trillion (submitted 2009 by President Obama)
2009 United States federal budget - $3.1 trillion (submitted 2008 by President Bush)
2008 United States federal budget - $2.9 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush)
2007 United States federal budget - $2.8 trillion (submitted 2006 by President Bush) )

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

again stop with the made up chart and deal with

It's simply amazing that you can't understand the concept of borrowing money over time and paying interest on the loan. Here, tell me what's "made up" about this:

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

And some are so blinded to disliking Obama they dismiss the reality of our financial situation and not only what got us here, but what is costing us big in borrowed money and interest payments over now and years to come.

It sure as hell wasn't Obama.

Bush more than doubled our national debt in 6 years. Obama kept us out of a depression, using a necessary stimulus package that most say wasn't even enough as the recession is a slow recovery.

The stimulus packages cost are a tiny part of our national debt obligation - the cost of which most is already gone, and will be even more so within 2 years - while the borrowing with interest to pay for the Bush debaucle of credit card charging and giving away our revenue is more than half, and is with us for years.

Hard to spin reality. Calling Obama the big spender for domestic spending (which he has cut, including Medicare, although discretionary is only like 16% of our budget) and stimulus - both comprising only a tiny portion of our debt obligation - is ludicrous and not supported by any facts.

The below chart clearly shows how tiny the cost of the stimulus and bailouts were, and how terribly expensive and disastrous increasing spending while cutting our revenue was - because we had to borrow that money with interest, and we are paying it back to China and others forever.

It's the dark gold on this chart that is borrowed money, with interest, that is increasing over time. Thank you, George W. Bush. You didn't even give us a kiss. And yes, Obama should have allowed the tax cuts to expire, so we could already be paying this off. That is essential - that we regain that revenue stream.

That is the threat to our grandchildren. Blaming it on "Obama spending!" is simply false.

Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures



UPDATE: Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. Also, some Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post. We originally left out the link to WaPo. It has now been added.

CLARIFICATION: Of course, this Washington Post graphic does not perfectly delineate budget surpluses and deficits by administration. President Bush took office in January 2001, and therefore played a lead role in crafting the FY 2002-2008 budgets. Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for the FY 2009 budget deficit that overlaps their administrations, before President Obama assumes full budgetary responsibility beginning in FY 2010. Overall, President Obama’s budget would add twice as much debt as President Bush over the same number of years.


http://blog.heritage.org/?p=4210

[Riot]

You diss the independent CBPP, yet you post from Heritage?

It's good to know that Obama could borrow a trillion dollars over the next five years, have repayment start in six years, have repayment last 10 years with interest, and you will entirely blame whomever is elected in 2016 for that debt

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

How about the Stimulus Package? Did that increase the budget deficit with no real stimulus or benefit?

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) asked the Congressional Budget Office to estimate the impact of permanently extending the 20 most popular provisions of the stimulus bill. What did the CBO find? The true 10 year cost of the stimulus bill $2.527 trillion in in spending with another $744 billion cost in debt servicing. Total bill for the Generational Theft Act: $3.27 trillion

But again Obama is a deficit cutting king and everything is Bush's fault.

Again, nice of you to quote numbers about a variety of different programs, and your personal opinion that the stimulus failed (not shared by most economics, btw).

But still waiting for you to show that the majority of the budget is due to some reckless Obama spending spree as you maintain.

I showed, with good data, that it isn't. I showed what the cost of the stimulus was in our debt picture (very small).

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Again, nice of you to quote numbers about a variety of different programs, and your personal opinion that the stimulus failed (not shared by most economics, btw).

But still waiting for you to show that the majority of the budget is due to some reckless Obama spending spree as you maintain.

I showed, with good data, that it isn't. I showed what the cost of the stimulus was in our debt picture (very small).

you showed one person's data and not the true cost of the stimulus package.

I don't have time to debate the entire budget with someone like you, but I will give you one thing. You stated that Obama cut Defense spending

The Department of Defense once again has the lion’s share of the discretionary federal budget, with an increase of about $8.2 billion over the 2010 Federal Budget in order to address ongoing military strategy, purchase weapons and take care of US Military. $548.9 billion is for the Department of Defense’s baseline budget, an additional $159.3 billion going to funding operations in Iraq, Afganistan and Pakistan, and an additional $33 billion for 2010 to supplement current mission requirement. The DOD is also setting a 2012 goal to create Virtual Lifetime Electronic Record (VLER), which is an agency that will create a more effective way to share health information for military. Major Department of Defense ExpendituresMilitary Operations


I guess to you a $8.2 Billion increase is a decrease in spending

[Antitrust32]

is good old Spin Doctor Beth back at it again today?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

is good old Spin Doctor Beth back at it again today?

Are you going to do nothing but curse and spew profanity again, Joey?

[Antitrust32]

wiphan, there is no point.

Obama is her Jesus... or should I say he's her Muhammed.

He walks on water, everything he touches turns to gold.

eventhough he's an extension of the devil himself, GW Bush


Its impossible to have a rational debate with someone who is so close minded. Soon you will be told you are a racist or bigot, if you havent been told that already.

[wiphan]

Amazes me how it is ok for Obama without Congressional approval to be doing what we are in Libya which originally was supposed to be an overnight air strike and take days, but we are now I believe 60+ days in with no signs of a resolution. Bush may have gotten us into a bad unfunded war, but at least he got congressional approval

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Amazes me how it is ok for Obama without Congressional approval to be doing what we are in Libya which originally was supposed to be an overnight air strike and take days, but we are now I believe 60+ days in with no signs of a resolution. Bush may have gotten us into a bad unfunded war, but at least he got congressional approval

I completely agree with that.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

you showed one person's data and not the true cost of the stimulus package.

That is the independent Congressional Budget Offices' data. Not "one person". "The" people, who know every dime, and where it goes. The ones that tell Congress the impact of their fiscal policies.

It is precisely the true cost of the stimulus, and the effect over time. If you have different data, feel free to post it.

And yes, Obama cut $50 billion from Defense Spending over 10 years (actually the Defense Dept did) - again, your quoting of base figures means you are attributing all spending to Obama, which is simply false.