French jets protecting Libyan rebels

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

and why is the US meddling in this affair?

So you were against meddling in Bosnia?

If there wasn't a drop of oil in that country then we wouldn't be there. There is "genocide" going on in other parts of the world. Parts that don't have oil.

What are we doing for those people? Not a god-damned thing.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So you were against meddling in Bosnia?

are you saying this is just like Bosnia

I never heard this referred to as Genocide
I thought he was killing his own people not some other race

Who are these people? The Muslim Brotherhood?

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

are you saying this is just like Bosnia

I never heard this referred to as Genocide
I thought he was killing his own people not some other race

Who are these people? The Muslim Brotherhood?

He was killing rebels. Innocent people die in every war.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

are you saying this is just like Bosnia

I never heard this referred to as Genocide
I thought he was killing his own people not some other race

Who are these people? The Muslim Brotherhood?

Genocide is generally applied to the systematic destruction/killing of a certain group of people, Gadhafi has repeated said he will show no mercy to those who oppose his rule. There is evidence that his goon squads have fired into groups of civilians and this would surely be a slaughter were they to gain control of areas of Libya under control of rebels. Also, to be clear, this started as a peaceful movement on the part of Libyan citizens seeking basic human rights, it was Gadhafi who initiated the violence, those referred to as "rebels" are mostly innocent civilians forced to defend themselves, most are not trained in even the use of firearms etc. They are not "rebels" as we often think of them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Genocide is generally applied to the systematic destruction/killing of a certain group of people, Gadhafi has repeated said he will show no mercy to those who oppose his rule. There is evidence that his goon squads have fired into groups of civilians and this would surely be a slaughter were they to gain control of areas of Libya under control of rebels. Also, to be clear, this started as a peaceful movement on the part of Libyan citizens seeking basic human rights, it was Gadhafi who initiated the violence, those referred to as "rebels" are mostly innocent civilians forced to defend themselves, most are not trained in even the use of firearms etc. They are not "rebels" as we often think of them.

I don't know if they are as clueless as you think they are. They do have anti-aircraft guns. Not too many people have them hooked up on the old pickup incase a crazy dictator decided to bomb your hometown. I have no idea what has been happening in Libya before the uprisings. It appears that there was some organizing forces that wanted Gadhafi out and was actively working towards that which is probably why the reaction has been so harsh. Didn't they have a plane shot down the other day?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I don't know if they are as clueless as you think they are. They do have anti-aircraft guns. Not too many people have them hooked up on the old pickup incase a crazy dictator decided to bomb your hometown. I have no idea what has been happening in Libya before the uprisings. It appears that there was some organizing forces that wanted Gadhafi out and was actively working towards that which is probably why the reaction has been so harsh. Didn't they have a plane shot down the other day?

OK, I cannot speak to exactly what they have or don't have or how long the discontent has been growing. My point is there is ample evidence that Gadhafi was planning on exacting violent revenge on his civilian population. His planes bombed towns and cities without regard for the civilian population, I'm not sure that any anti-aircraft weapons weren't confiscated from his forces. It is reported that the "rebels" had one aircraft that was shot down but the details of that are rather unclear at present.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

are you saying this is just like Bosnia

I never heard this referred to as Genocide
I thought he was killing his own people not some other race

Who are these people? The Muslim Brotherhood?

I am saying that NATO forces successfully maintained a no fly zone with very few losses that resulted in a fairly positive end.

The idea that there must be genocide to qualify for international support is interesting.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am saying that NATO forces successfully maintained a no fly zone with very few losses that resulted in a fairly positive end.

The idea that there must be genocide to qualify for international support is interesting.

What does qualify for international support? I don't think the US needs to be in the business of nation building and there is really no justification for US intervention.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

What does qualify for international support? I don't think the US needs to be in the business of nation building and there is really no justification for US intervention.

So we should let England and France have all the fun?

This is a golden opportunity to get rid of a despot which the leaders of the free world have decided to take. I guess I could use the Riot tactic on you...

You obviously support Gaddafi. How can you support a brutal, oppressive dictator that not only sponsors terrorism but kills his own people?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am saying that NATO forces successfully maintained a no fly zone with very few losses that resulted in a fairly positive end.

The idea that there must be genocide to qualify for international support is interesting.

I'm shocked that this many Americans (knowing we could easily help stop it) couldn't care less if 50k-100k people got slaughtered by their own armed forces. Would of been nice if someone else had done it. They wouldn't. It was up to the major democracies of the World to step up (together.) It's a fairly flat country, and you don't have to beg other countries to use their air space. Because we wouldn't stop guys on horseback from killing people in the Sudan? That's a reason not to do this?

[Danzig]

so, a couple pages past my question, and no good answer. i expected as much. i haven't seen a compelling reason yet for us engaging over there. i haven't seen much of a reason at all, let alone compelling. evil dictator and his civvies hurting. hell, that could encompass plenty of dictators and plenty of countries. so, why libya? because most of nato said so? because it takes all those countries' minds off their woes? because libya is a bad guy, with a bad leader? again, that description fits a variety of countries. i think it's ridiculous; i think once again we're letting the euros get us into something we don't have business in. it makes no sense. i think the powers that be figured no one would bitch about this particular guy and his country-unlike saudi arabia, bahrain, yemen, etc. an 'easy' target. to what end?

and so...our foreign policy contines to suck.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so, a couple pages past my question, and no good answer. i expected as much. i haven't seen a compelling reason yet for us engaging over there. i haven't seen much of a reason at all, let alone compelling. evil dictator and his civvies hurting. hell, that could encompass plenty of dictators and plenty of countries. so, why libya? because most of nato said so? because it takes all those countries' minds off their woes? because libya is a bad guy, with a bad leader? again, that description fits a variety of countries. i think it's ridiculous; i think once again we're letting the euros get us into something we don't have business in. it makes no sense. i think the powers that be figured no one would bitch about this particular guy and his country-unlike saudi arabia, bahrain, yemen, etc. an 'easy' target. to what end?

and so...our foreign policy contines to suck.

You are right. Since when do "humanitarian" efforts start off with a missile attack?

[dellinger63]

FUBAR!!!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...eda-links.html