Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

LMAO

you really have no clue do ya?

Dell quit trying. Reasoning with Riot is like trying to work out new contracts with the teachers union.

BTW- anybody want to talk about how MATC (for those outside of wisconsin) Milwaukee Area Technical College that quickly signed a 3 yr contract extension in an emergency meeting prior to Govenor Walker's proposal?

The biggest joke is the teachers union say they are willing to accept the cuts; however if they do not get rid of collective bargaining their word means absolutely nothing since they do not have the right to negotiate for every municipality in the state.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Dell quit trying. Reasoning with Riot is like trying to work out new contracts with the teachers union. .

I know twitter tells the whole story. No need to be here!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Dell quit trying. Reasoning with Riot is like trying to work out new contracts with the teachers union.

Really? What part of my posting, "AFSCME Files Unfair Labor Practice Complaint Against Gov. Walker", which is indeed true, is "being unreasonable"??

Or maybe Dell can explain how the fact that AFSCME filed the complaint is, "not having a clue?"

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Really? What part of my posting, "AFSCME Files Unfair Labor Practice Complaint Against Gov. Walker", which is indeed true, is "being unreasonable"??

Or maybe Dell can explain how the fact that AFSCME filed the complaint is, "not having a clue?"

Riot you believe Scott Walker is the devil and unions are the best thing that happened to the workers since sliced bread. You quote polls, articles, etc and try everything to prove your point. I can find you polls that say the opposite and I can dispute all of your arguments however I have a job (unlike a lot of the protestors in Madison) a family and a life outside of trying to prove you are incorrect.

You have not once posted a solution to the budget problems that our state faces and that many states will face in the future thanks to the outrageous spending and government entitlements. If you believe you have a better solution I would love to hear it and again saying that the teachers union is willing to accept cuts is not an acceptable solution since they can not negotiate that since each municipality will have to do that themselves. Please enlighten us...

[wiphan]

Also here is an example of the one school district (not the top paying by any means in WI)

Kaukana Area School District and the Comensation section of the union contract. Just a few Highlights for your review:


1) The full year contract for a teacher is 188 days. This includes 176 teaching days and 12 in-service days. Page 9 Master Contract.

2) The district uses WEA for it’s health insurance provider. Cost over $23,000/yr.

3) The district uses WEA for it's dental and pays 90% of the cost.

4) The district provides 2x salary for group life insurance through WEA paid 100% by employer.

5) The district provides long term disability through WEA paid 100% by employer.

6) The district provides long term care insuranc through WEA paid 100% by the employer. I just quoted my own LTC policy at age 36 at a cost of $4,100/yr.

7) Teachers are assigned 5 class periods/ day and if a teacher is assigned a six period they shall be paid one seventhe of their annual salary for this extra assignment .

8) Normal work week for teachers shall be 37.5 hours. Page 17 Master Contract.

9) Teacher normal work day is 7:30 to 3:45 with a required 30 minute lunch and 8 hours of prep time each week. Page 17 Master Contract.

10) Full year for pension credit is 1,350 hours. See WRS Website for pension credits.


Example hourly rate for 1st year Kaukauna teacher:


$37,100 (see pay grid) / 188 work days (based on contract) / 8 hour pay day from 7:30 to 5:00PM ( contract is 7:30 to 3:45) hourly rate for first year teacher is $24.66/hr.

$30,000 benefits ($23,000 health/$4,081 Pension/Dental/LTC/Life)/ 188 work days/ 8 hour pay=$20.80/hr.

Total 1st year pay package Kaukauna Teacher is $24.66 +$20.80=$41.63

Example hourly rate for a teacher with over 10 years experience:

$79,559 (see pay grid) / 188 work days (based on contract) / 8 hour pay day from 7:30 to 5:00PM ( contract is 7:30 to 3:45) hourly rate is $52.89/hr.

$35,000 benefits ($23,000 health/$8,751 Pension/Dental/LTC/Life)/ 188 work days/ 8 hour pay=$23.27/hr.

Total pay package Kaukauna Teacher is $52.89+$23.27=$76.16/hr.

If they worked a full year of 2040 hours this would amount to a total pay package of $155,366 at $76.16/hr.

[Riot]

If they worked a full year of 2040 hours this would amount to a total pay package of $155,366 at $76.16/hr.

But they don't work a full year. They work 188 days. But their salary has to cover them for a full year like anyone else. If they worked a full year, their package would probably remain exactly what it is now.

The math here is obviously faulty. The correct thing to do, to compare what teachers earn a year to what everyone else earns for a year, is to take what they earn and spread that over 12 months. Not 188 days. Because professionals are paid a yearly salary and benefits package, not an hourly wage.

You also cannot include pension money in the yearly calcuation, because that is deferred pay.

[geeker2]

uh oh....polls don't lie do they?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...ion-households

[Danzig]

it's funny, when school is mentioned as going all year long, the teachers wan't a pay raise. but when you say they make too much money based on working half a year, they try to show that they work all year. still haven't figured out how that works.

and i wish my husbands insurance was set up like the schools here. sure would save me a ton of money.

as for unions-i think all states should be right to work states, as it is here in arkansas. you aren't forced to join a union here; it's a choice- it should be a choice everywhere. i think that's where many have an issue with a union. you choose to join a profession, you're automatically in, dues collected, etc, etc, whether you like it or not. whether you agree with the union or not.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

uh oh....polls don't lie do they?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...ion-households

You always look at the sampling methodology, and compare to the margin of error the poll publishes. Some pollsters have a great reputation for predictive accuracy, some do not. The contention made here, that you have to exactly match the percentage number per category within the population you are sampling, isn't true from a statistical accuracy sense. There are lots of other things that come into play. The PDF posted with this article doesn't even list the sampling technique for selecting who was talked to, that I can find.

I can get an accurate scientific study published using just 6 horses, if you treat the datum accurately and fairly in a statistical sense. And no, that is not "making numbers say what you want".

(sorry, had to repost this under me)

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Riot you believe Scott Walker is the devil and unions are the best thing that happened to the workers since sliced bread. .

Well, no. I don't.

Maybe you shouldn't make so many assumptions about other people?

You quote polls, articles, etc and try everything to prove your point.

Um, no. I post articles, polls, etc - and that forms my opinion. I don't start with an opinion, first.

I can find you polls that say the opposite and I can dispute all of your arguments however I have a job (unlike a lot of the protestors in Madison) a family and a life outside of trying to prove you are incorrect.

Ah. I see. Everything I think or post is "incorrect". THAT's what it is you think is "unreasonable" <vbg>

And you're actually making snarky comments about me because you think I have more free time than you to pay attention to politics (that's not allowed?), or that I love talking about politics? (not allowed either in your world?) Not very tolerant of other people being different than you, are you? And I'm the one being "unreasonable"? LOL

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Well, no. I don't.

Maybe you shouldn't make so many assumptions about other people?



Um, no. I post articles, polls, etc - and that forms my opinion. I don't start with an opinion, first.



Ah. I see. Everything I think or post is "incorrect". THAT's what it is you think is "unreasonable" <vbg>

And you're actually making snarky comments about me because you think I have more free time than you to pay attention to politics (that's not allowed?), or that I love talking about politics? (not allowed either in your world?) Not very tolerant of other people being different than you, are you? And I'm the one being "unreasonable"? LOL

nice moonwalk

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

nice moonwalk

No. It was not.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

No. It was not.

yeah...it was. You didnt answer a lick of his question, or give a solution. You appear to have most of the floor...so quit dancing and put forth a small solution.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Well, no. I don't.

Maybe you shouldn't make so many assumptions about other people?



Um, no. I post articles, polls, etc - and that forms my opinion. I don't start with an opinion, first.



Ah. I see. Everything I think or post is "incorrect". THAT's what it is you think is "unreasonable" <vbg>

And you're actually making snarky comments about me because you think I have more free time than you to pay attention to politics (that's not allowed?), or that I love talking about politics? (not allowed either in your world?) Not very tolerant of other people being different than you, are you? And I'm the one being "unreasonable"? LOL

You still have not offerred a single solution to WI budget problems. Please enlighten us with your solution

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

You still have not offerred a single solution to WI budget problems. Please enlighten us with your solution

And you are simply trying to change the subject.

Hold out and keep hoping for those 250,000 new jobs over the next four years your Governor promised you today. If Walker creates 250,000 new Wisconsin jobs I'll happily vote for him for President of the United States.

But for right now, I'll go with the long past performance history of the economic policies he's inducing, and expect a state-wide deepening recession and massive local municipal job layoffs, myself.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

And you are simply trying to change the subject.

Hold out and keep hoping for those 250,000 new jobs over the next four years your Governor promised you today. If Walker creates 250,000 new Wisconsin jobs I'll happily vote for him for President of the United States.

But for right now, I'll go with the long past performance history of the economic policies he's inducing, and expect a state-wide deepening recession and massive local municipal job layoffs, myself.

Again you just continue to bash the Republicans for everything they do, but still have not offered the "Riot Budget Plan Solution". In the real world you can't just complain about the other side. You need to offer a viable solution to the problem. Just bitching about the other side's proposal doesn't cut it. Ignoring the problem, not addressing the problem or just complaining about the other side's solution does nothing. Please give me at least 1 idea you have to solve the budget deficit issue in WI