Knicks Get Melo: Did they give up too much?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I think the problem is that he would have ended up with the crosstown (or soon to be) Nets. That would have been a disasterous step back for an organization trying to move forward after a beyond horrible past decade. It's a move that will most likely help this team move forward, generate more excitment around the team and appease a fan base that has started to come back.

As far as if they gave up too much, they probably did. But I think it was necessary because if push came to shove, I really believe that he would have accepted the trade to the Nets so he could get the new extention before the possible new CBA. I think I heard the number being somewhere close to 60 million if he didn't sign it this season. I can't imagine him leaving that much money on the table when he had the opportunity to play for a team in the same area.

There was no shot of him signing with the Nets. This isnt baseball where a team like the Yankees can just blow everyone out of the water. The deal he would have signed as a FA is going to be the same regardless of where he went. HE wanted to be traded because he makes more money resigning as a member of a team than as a unrestricted FA. DENVER wanted to trade him because they did not want to wind up like Cleveland. But seriously do you think the Nets would have made a deal for him if they had no guarantee that he would resign with them? The Russian simply played his hand as well as possible by bluffing the crosstown rivals into giving up too much.

I am a Knick fan. I will root for him. But the fact is that he was coming to NY regardless and he could have come to a team that is a lot better than the team he will play on.

[Cannon Shell]

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...medium=twitter

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...medium=twitter

Quoting a liberal to make your point? You are convinced.

I'm not a Knick fan, but if I were, I'd be ambivalent on the deal. Carmelo is a tremendous talent and he/Amare will be the second-best one-two punch in the NBA. But there really isn't much beyond that on the team now. Billups is on the way down, Fields is a roleplayer and Shawne Williams and Turiaf are one-trick ponies. I can't even name any other players on the team.

In order for this trade to be a long-term positive rather than another Isiah-esque shortsighted headline grab, the Knicks will have to continue to be ultra-aggressive in free agency. People may think this means grabbing Chris Paul or Deron Williams, which may indeed happen, but they also need to amass some reliable MLE-type guys this offseason to make it more than a two-man team.

In the end, I think as long as D'Antoni is the coach, this team isn't winning a championship. He's an offensive genius, but his laissez-faire attitude towards defense just isn't conducive to the type of basketball that gets to and wins NBA Finals. I can't recall a team winning a championship in the NBA by playing 120-115 shootouts every game.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Quoting a liberal to make your point? You are convinced.

I'm not a Knick fan, but if I were, I'd be ambivalent on the deal. Carmelo is a tremendous talent and he/Amare will be the second-best one-two punch in the NBA. But there really isn't much beyond that on the team now. Billups is on the way down, Fields is a roleplayer and Shawne Williams and Turiaf are one-trick ponies. I can't even name any other players on the team.

In order for this trade to be a long-term positive rather than another Isiah-esque shortsighted headline grab, the Knicks will have to continue to be ultra-aggressive in free agency. People may think this means grabbing Chris Paul or Deron Williams, which may indeed happen, but they also need to amass some reliable MLE-type guys this offseason to make it more than a two-man team.

In the end, I think as long as D'Antoni is the coach, this team isn't winning a championship. He's an offensive genius, but his laissez-faire attitude towards defense just isn't conducive to the type of basketball that gets to and wins NBA Finals. I can't recall a team winning a championship in the NBA by playing 120-115 shootouts every game.

He is a smart liberal who makes sense. Not too many of those to follow.

Anthony is a tremendous scorer but isnt a complete player and IMO they have left too many holes to fill and not enough maneuvering room to get real help. The Chris Paul/Deron Williams thing just isnt going to happen unless everyone agrees to take a lot less money and isnt that the main reason that Anthony and Amare are in NY? Again getting Anthony is great but considering the circumstances I think they gave up far more than they needed to and probably as Silver said have "doomed" themselves into being a 50 win team that probably wont ever win a title. Kind of like a Dallas Mavs of the East.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

In the end, I think as long as D'Antoni is the coach, this team isn't winning a championship. He's an offensive genius, but his laissez-faire attitude towards defense just isn't conducive to the type of basketball that gets to and wins NBA Finals. I can't recall a team winning a championship in the NBA by playing 120-115 shootouts every game.

I think this is really what it all comes down to. This team is going to score, but Amare plays little defense and Melo plays less. Even if they add a Paul or Williams next year they aren't going to outscore the better teams in the east and they certainly aren't going to be able to keep up defensively.

Now that Carmelo Watch is over how about Rose Watch? Come on ESPN lets get it!@

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There was no shot of him signing with the Nets. This isnt baseball where a team like the Yankees can just blow everyone out of the water. The deal he would have signed as a FA is going to be the same regardless of where he went. HE wanted to be traded because he makes more money resigning as a member of a team than as a unrestricted FA. DENVER wanted to trade him because they did not want to wind up like Cleveland. But seriously do you think the Nets would have made a deal for him if they had no guarantee that he would resign with them? The Russian simply played his hand as well as possible by bluffing the crosstown rivals into giving up too much.

I am a Knick fan. I will root for him. But the fact is that he was coming to NY regardless and he could have come to a team that is a lot better than the team he will play on.

Chuck what I was trying to say, was that he would have ok'ed the trade to the Nets and then re-upped with them to get the max. That is if the Knicks decided not to trade for him and just waited for him to hit the FA market, hence him leaving alot of money on the table.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Chuck what I was trying to say, was that he would have ok'ed the trade to the Nets and then re-upped with them to get the max. That is if the Knicks decided not to trade for him and just waited for him to hit the FA market, hence him leaving alot of money on the table.

I dont think he would have agreed to an extension with NJ. The money difference isnt that much. The knicks absolutely botched this beyond belief. They should have back-channeled to him that we will not give up all our complimentary pieces to trade for you. Ride it out, sign with us and we have a shot to win a championship next year. Winning in NY will make you way more money than the difference between re-upping. Not to mention they could do a sign and trade with Denver AFTER the season like Cleveland and LeBron and Toronto and Bosh did.

The funny thing is LeBron gets blasted but the reality is he manipulated the system to make his team better and took less money. Anthony played the system simply to make more money and weakened his team in the process.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont think he would have agreed to an extension with NJ. The money difference isnt that much. The knicks absolutely botched this beyond belief. They should have back-channeled to him that we will not give up all our complimentary pieces to trade for you. Ride it out, sign with us and we have a shot to win a championship next year. Winning in NY will make you way more money than the difference between re-upping. Not to mention they could do a sign and trade with Denver AFTER the season like Cleveland and LeBron and Toronto and Bosh did.

The funny thing is LeBron gets blasted but the reality is he manipulated the system to make his team better and took less money. Anthony played the system simply to make more money and weakened his team in the process.

Exactly why they had to pay up to get him. No one will ever know what was promised and discussed when Carmelo sat down with Prokhorov, but I really think that they were a legitimate threat to get him if the Knicks balked on the trade and insisted on signing him in the off season.
Winning would probably make up the difference and then some money wise, but there ain't no money like gaurenteed max money. Besides winning isn't a sure thing, especially with having to get past the Celts and Heat.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Exactly why they had to pay up to get him. No one will ever know what was promised and discussed when Carmelo sat down with Prokhorov, but I really think that they were a legitimate threat to get him if the Knicks balked on the trade and insisted on signing him in the off season.
Winning would probably make up the difference and then some money wise, but there ain't no money like gaurenteed max money. Besides winning isn't a sure thing, especially with having to get past the Celts and Heat.

I am still not convinced that the Nets bogeyman was ever in the running. I think the Lakers faux offer should have made the Knicks realize that this was all a smokescreen and there logically wasn't any reason that any NBA all-star would willingly choose the Nets unless there was just no other option. I suppose we may never know the real story

[jms62]

Is there any chance whatsoever that Phil Jackson finishes his career as the Knicks coach?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jms62

Is there any chance whatsoever that Phil Jackson finishes his career as the Knicks coach?

Not unless they are 100% primed to win an NBA title. I think beatings by the Heat, celtics and Bulls would be too much for his ego to take.

People are talking about adding Chris Paul but I don't see how they make that work. Can someone explain?

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Exactly why they had to pay up to get him. No one will ever know what was promised and discussed when Carmelo sat down with Prokhorov, but I really think that they were a legitimate threat to get him if the Knicks balked on the trade and insisted on signing him in the off season.
Winning would probably make up the difference and then some money wise, but there ain't no money like gaurenteed max money. Besides winning isn't a sure thing, especially with having to get past the Celts and Heat.

He could not beat Kobe (basically solo) when he was here. They will never get by those two monsters.

[freddymo]

Noah Rose Boozer vs Amare Mello billups..I would take a shot in a series.. Forget what they gave up, are the Knicks significant better suited for the next 5 years today then they were 3 days ago.. Forget the salary cap because if NY is screwed so is Miami Boston etc.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Noah Rose Boozer vs Amare Mello billups..I would take a shot in a series.. Forget what they gave up, are the Knicks significant better suited for the next 5 years today then they were 3 days ago.. Forget the salary cap because if NY is screwed so is Miami Boston etc.

Please stop. This is making me feel worse about this.

Originally Posted by freddymo

Noah Rose Boozer vs Amare Mello billups..I would take a shot in a series.. Forget what they gave up, are the Knicks significant better suited for the next 5 years today then they were 3 days ago.. Forget the salary cap because if NY is screwed so is Miami Boston etc.

Bulls all day. No way Billups could warm Rose up at this point.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There was no shot of him signing with the Nets. This isnt baseball where a team like the Yankees can just blow everyone out of the water. The deal he would have signed as a FA is going to be the same regardless of where he went. HE wanted to be traded because he makes more money resigning as a member of a team than as a unrestricted FA. DENVER wanted to trade him because they did not want to wind up like Cleveland. But seriously do you think the Nets would have made a deal for him if they had no guarantee that he would resign with them? The Russian simply played his hand as well as possible by bluffing the crosstown rivals into giving up too much.

I am a Knick fan. I will root for him. But the fact is that he was coming to NY regardless and he could have come to a team that is a lot better than the team he will play on.

Exactly. The Nets owner played the Knicks like a fiddle. I don't like the trade for the Knicks at all. As you said, he would have come in the summer anyway and they would have kept all of the players. There was no need for them to give up all that they did. Last I checked, Anthony still doesn't play defense. Pairing him with another matador defender like Stoudamire is asking for trouble. Anthony is strictly box office in NY. He'll provide some offense but offense wasn't their problem since they are second on the league in scoring anyway. I also don't think that Billups is that good of a fit in that style of play. They gave up a ton and didn't get enough back and what is it going to do for them this year? Nothing. They still aren't better than Boston, Miami, Chicago, or Orlando. This MAY put them past Atlanta. So they perhaps are in a position to win a playoff series. I think they would have been better off without getting Anthony and trying to lure Dwight Howard next year when he would have been in the final year of his own contract.