Founding fathers liked taxed government health care

[Riot]

the shortage of Drs will be exacerbated by the experienced Docs leaving their practices.

As doctors get paid more fairly, as insurance companies lose their current control over dictating the practice of medicine, there will be more doctors.

The bill shows a 231 bil deficit in what Docs are to be paid for their services by Big Brother.

Don't quite understand what you are talking about in the above sentence. Try again.

Do you think that a possible doctors shortage would be a reason to not try and get an additional 30 million Americans insured?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

As doctors get paid more fairly, as insurance companies lose their current control over dictating the practice of medicine, there will be more doctors.



Don't quite understand what you are talking about in the above sentence. Try again.

Do you think that a possible doctors shortage would be a reason to not try and get an additional 30 million Americans insured?

There is a 231 bil shortfall in the monies proposed to pay Drs.
No

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

There is a 231 bil shortfall in the monies proposed to pay Drs.
No

Again, what are you talking about - what monies are missing. Are you saying the bill promises reimbursements (I assume Medicare? but I don't know) that there will not be money to pay for? When? If so, that's too general a statement, please quote where you got it from.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

As doctors get paid more fairly, as insurance companies lose their current control over dictating the practice of medicine, there will be more doctors.
?

are you f-ing kidding me????

there is nothing that doctors hate more than having to accept medicare.

Medicare = government insurance

Doctors hate it because reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork is too much of a hassle.

I asked my friend and dentist awhile back if he takes medicare/medicade.

He said no and explained: Compare my service to buying a burger. It costs $1 for the materials to make it. it costs another $1 to pay the employees to make it. It costs $2 to maintain the resteraunt and by insurance for the resteraunt. The final $1 is for profit.

So I need to sell the burger for $5 to have a business that can make it. Now the government comes in and says I can only be reimbursed $1 for that burger... so I'm out $4.

If you think this bill will encourage young bring minds to become doctors, you are more clueless than ever thought before.

But then again you think its "easy to make" doctors.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

are you f-ing kidding me????

there is nothing that doctors hate more than having to accept medicare.

Medicare = government insurance

Doctors hate it because reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork is too much of a hassle.

I asked my friend and dentist awhile back if he takes medicare/medicade.

He said no and explained: Compare my service to buying a burger. It costs $1 for the materials to make it. it costs another $1 to pay the employees to make it. It costs $2 to maintain the resteraunt and by insurance for the resteraunt. The final $1 is for profit.

So I need to sell the burger for $5 to have a business that can make it. Now the government comes in and says I can only be reimbursed $1 for that burger... so I'm out $4.

If you think this bill will encourage young bring minds to become doctors, you are more clueless than ever thought before.

But then again you think its "easy to make" doctors.

This is an interesting point you have brought up about Medicare. Can you blame the Doctors for not wanting to take Medicare? I sure wouldn't take Medicare? Alot of these Doctors have a enormous amount of student loans to be paid for.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

are you f-ing kidding me????

there is nothing that doctors hate more than having to accept medicare.

Medicare = government insurance

Doctors hate it because reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork is too much of a hassle.

I asked my friend and dentist awhile back if he takes medicare/medicade.

He said no and explained: Compare my service to buying a burger. It costs $1 for the materials to make it. it costs another $1 to pay the employees to make it. It costs $2 to maintain the resteraunt and by insurance for the resteraunt. The final $1 is for profit.

So I need to sell the burger for $5 to have a business that can make it. Now the government comes in and says I can only be reimbursed $1 for that burger... so I'm out $4.

If you think this bill will encourage young bring minds to become doctors, you are more clueless than ever thought before.

But then again you think its "easy to make" doctors.

Antitrust, there are some inaccuracies in the above post-

First of all, Medicare and Medicaid are not the same program and should not be lumped together, in the same way that Social Security is not funded the same way Medicare is, and should not be lumped in when discussing gov't debt (are you hearing me, mainstream media?). Medicare is a federal funded program for the elderly and certain long-term disabled people and Medicaid is shared between the federal and state gov'ts to provide care for the poor.

Reimbursement for doctors is generally not great with Medicare, however, reimbursement rates for hospitals are generally pretty good. Most hospitals would have to close without Medicare patients. The breakdown of where Medicare money goes is:

Acute care hospitals: 48%
Physicians: 20%
Home health: 9%
Outpatient services: 8%
Skilled nursing home care: 6%
Hospice care: 1%
Admin overhead: 0.7%
Profit: 0%

So, taking a dentist's opinion on Medicare as the complete truth is a rather limited sample size and I suspect would not get you a passing grade in a statistics class. And again, it's not the same thing as Medicaid and many doctors take Medicare and won't take Medicaid, of which only 6% of the money goes to doctors (25% goes to nursing homes and 19% to inpatient hospitals, 10% to home health care, to give you some frame of reference). Medicare also reimburses teaching hospitals at a higher rate, so in fact, many doctors have their education partly subsidized by Medicare.

The big issue with Medicare reimbursement rates, if we're talking long-term reduction of costs, is that more specialized procedures get reimbursed at a better rate than basic services. So, if it's harder to find a GP who accepts Medicare, you're more likely to put off getting care until something that might have been minor, becomes major.

And this is a very, very important point. Our current system essentially penalizes people for tending to water dripping through the ceiling, but pays up when the roof finally collapses from years of accumulated water damage. Requiring insurance companies to cover wellness visits will save them and us money in the long run.

The shortage issue is not doctors entirely, it's GPs specifically. Lord knows it's not dentists. GPs are the ones who need to be recruited. In my perfect world, the gov't would subsidize tuition, in return for a certain number of years of work in underserved areas. I have a relative who got her midwife certification under a program like that- tuition paid for; in return she works in inner city facilities for 5 years. Make tuition affordable and you'll see people eager to become doctors.

[joeydb]

The recent Florida decision pointing out the unconstitutionality of ObamaCare, along with the 78 pages detailing it, provide ample evidence of the exact opposite of the premise of this thread:

The Founding Fathers would have despised this socialist ilk.

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM153_vin.html

[dellinger63]

I think we can learn a lot from why physicians are refusing Medicare in fact it gives us a look at what a catastrophe Government involvement in the private sector would be. For starters:

Medicare regularly cuts the rates of reimbursement, which means doctors earn less for office visits and various procedures

There is a longer delay than ever before for doctors to get reimbursements from Medicare

Medicare has a very convoluted, bureacratic process that allows some tests and treatments, refuses to pay for others, and limits how a doctor can practice medicine

Doctors may need additional staff to handle the extra paperwork, phone calls, resubmissions, and negotiation with insurance companies.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I think we can learn a lot from why physicians are refusing Medicare in fact it gives us a look at what a catastrophe Government involvement in the private sector would be. For starters:

Perhaps you could review the PPACA ("Obamacare") and see how it addresses problems with Medicare reimbursements, and the stability of the Medicare program, as it does make some changes:

Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient...dable_Care_Act

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

The recent Florida decision pointing out the unconstitutionality of ObamaCare, along with the 78 pages detailing it, provide ample evidence of the exact opposite of the premise of this thread:

The Founding Fathers would have despised this socialist ilk.

What about the two judges that upheld it and say it is constitutional? Do we just ignore them? And the 14 that said there is no case to hear?

The Supremes will probably get it April, and life will go on. With healthcare for many.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

The Supremes will probably get it April, and life will go on. With large fines for many.

FTFY

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

FTFY

$95 for an individual that you don't have to ever pay is a really big fine.

What about the small businesses that already are getting tax credits this year, and buying insurance for their employees for the first time ?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

The shortage issue is not doctors entirely, it's GPs specifically. Lord knows it's not dentists. GPs are the ones who need to be recruited. In my perfect world, the gov't would subsidize tuition, in return for a certain number of years of work in underserved areas. I have a relative who got her midwife certification under a program like that- tuition paid for; in return she works in inner city facilities for 5 years. Make tuition affordable and you'll see people eager to become doctors.

thank you for your respectful & informative reply.

I can agree with something along the lines of what you posted above. Though I'd much rather it be subsidized by charity or something other than government. Are taxes are too high as it is!!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Medicare is a federal funded program for the elderly and certain long-term disabled people and Medicaid is shared between the federal and state gov'ts to provide care for the poor.

And if one wants to see a real "government death panel", as a result of cutting state medicad-type funds, that has already resulted in the deaths of two people this year: look at Gov. Jan Brewer's cutting of state funds to patients on the transplant waiting list in her state.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_1...-10391704.html

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/20...nother-victim/

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

are you f-ing kidding me????

there is nothing that doctors hate more than having to accept medicare.

Medicare = government insurance

Doctors hate it because reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork is too much of a hassle. .

What are you talking about? We're not talking about Medicare, we're talking about increasing the number of doctors in the health care system The PPACA will increase the insured by 32 million, but no, they will not be on Medicare, they will be insured by private insurance companies.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

What are you talking about? We're not talking about Medicare, we're talking about increasing the number of doctors in the health care system The PPACA will increase the insured by 32 million, but no, they will not be on Medicare, they will be insured by private insurance companies.

the point of my post was that government makes everything worse. and Obamacare will make health care worse. It WILL decrease the amount of young bright minds who want to go into medicine. I've already felt it (hard) and so have many working americans.

A simple way for the Government to increase young bright minds into wanting to become doctors through health care reform: tort reform!! But that was wayy to much to ask for from the liberals. they botched that bill so bad.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

A simple way for the Government to increase young bright minds into wanting to become doctors through health care reform: tort reform!! But that was wayy to much to ask for from the liberals. they botched that bill so bad.

So you support and are happy about what Obama specifically asked for in his State of the Union speech this month, tort reform? Good for those liberals, huh?

GP's don't pay alot in malpractice insurance, btw (compared to OB-GYN, for example) so I don't think threat of litigation is a huge obstruction to doctors choosing to go into general practice versus ortho, ER, internal medicine, etc.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you support and are happy about what Obama specifically asked for in his State of the Union speech this month, tort reform? Good for those liberals, huh?

GP's don't pay alot in malpractice insurance, btw (compared to OB-GYN, for example) so I don't think threat of litigation is a huge obstruction to doctors choosing to go into general practice versus ortho, ER, internal medicine, etc.

I guess now is a better time for a "are you f-ing kidding me??" moment.

oh well that is so awesome that Obama talked about tort reform in his SOTU speech in 2011 a full year after him and the other liberals shoved an unwanted bill down Americans throats (& not using any integrity in the process) that did NOT include tort reform!

Golf clap for Obama to say that after the bill has gone through. Tort reform has a chance to go through if the Repubs had the senate and White House. But we have already seen that Dems cant take their hands out of lawyers pockets... so why should we possibly think its going to happen now???

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I guess now is a better time for a "are you f-ing kidding me??" moment.

oh well that is so awesome that Obama talked about tort reform in his SOTU speech in 2011 a full year after him and the other liberals shoved an unwanted bill down Americans throats (& not using any integrity in the process) that did NOT include tort reform!

Golf clap for Obama to say that after the bill has gone through. Tort reform has a chance to go through if the Repubs had the senate and White House. But we have already seen that Dems cant take their hands out of lawyers pockets... so why should we possibly think its going to happen now???

Clap Clap Clap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Dems idea of Tort Reform is spend spend spend.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

The PPACA will increase the insured by 32 million, but no, they will not be on Medicare, they will be insured by private insurance companies.

How many doctors does it take to care for the 32 million newly insured?

And those in the high-risk category who don't have the money to get insured. Who pays for them?