baseball moves

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Just get the feel that the organization has no credibility and the only way that they can attract/acquire any type of free agent is to grossly overpay for them.

I suppose that guys arent banging down the door to go there but this is simply way too long and too much for a late blooming, non-star player. This is the type of deals Steinbrenner would make. Fans arent flocking to see Werth. The fact that he turns 32 in May makes it even worse than just overpaying. he had his best season this past year but at age 32 in a theoretically lesser juiced era there probably isnt much more improvement coming.

The average Jason werth season is .280 with 25 HR and 90 Rbi's
He has some defensive versitility as he can play center adequately

Washington has some talented guys coming through the system and have done a much better job drafting like tampa did in their rise to promeninence. But they never made a terrible deal like this that 4 years from now when Washington may be good they will be saddled with a 36 year old guy with so so power in decline making 20+ million a year, and still have 3 years left.

[Cannon Shell]

Not to mention they just drafted the most hyped prospect ever who they claim they intend to move to RF. Obviously he wont be ready for the majors for a few years but what if he is ready in 2? Where do you play werth or the kid?

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I suppose that guys arent banging down the door to go there but this is simply way too long and too much for a late blooming, non-star player. This is the type of deals Steinbrenner would make. Fans arent flocking to see Werth. The fact that he turns 32 in May makes it even worse than just overpaying. he had his best season this past year but at age 32 in a theoretically lesser juiced era there probably isnt much more improvement coming.

The average Jason werth season is .280 with 25 HR and 90 Rbi's
He has some defensive versitility as he can play center adequately

Washington has some talented guys coming through the system and have done a much better job drafting like tampa did in their rise to promeninence. But they never made a terrible deal like this that 4 years from now when Washington may be good they will be saddled with a 36 year old guy with so so power in decline making 20+ million a year, and still have 3 years left.

I tend to agree with you, but in this case he might put a few fans in the seats. You would think that the fan base wold be pleased that the Nats made a splash into the free agency waters trying to improve the club. Magnify the fact it's a guy that they have seen terrorize them the past few season and now they were able to take him away from a division rival.

Not sure how is numbers will play in a different stadium then the launching pad he has played in the last few seasons. Also you would think that he will offer some sort of protection in the lineup for Zimmerman.
I also think he is solid in the field.

The contract is ridiculous and reminds me a bit of the contract that Pedro Martinez signed with the Mets. The backend of that contract was a killer. But they needed to sign and establish a presence that they were going to be a competitive organization not afraid to spend some money. Now they have Werth (agreed that he's not a superstar), but he's still a presence that might be able to recruit other free agents in upcoming years. They needed to start somewhere and unfortunately they really had to overpay to get that first guy aboard.

[randallscott35]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/405487...s-player_news/

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/405487...s-player_news/

Wow, I don't think it will happen. But it will certainly turn the pressure up on other teams in that division. Especially the Mets who are preaching patience while waiting for some big numbers to come off the books.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Wow, I don't think it will happen. But it will certainly turn the pressure up on other teams in that division. Especially the Mets who are preaching patience while waiting for some big numbers to come off the books.

Umm, the Mets are awful. They can preach whatever they want. They are years away from contending, like 4 or 5 if they make correct moves.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I suppose that guys arent banging down the door to go there but this is simply way too long and too much for a late blooming, non-star player. This is the type of deals Steinbrenner would make. Fans arent flocking to see Werth. The fact that he turns 32 in May makes it even worse than just overpaying. he had his best season this past year but at age 32 in a theoretically lesser juiced era there probably isnt much more improvement coming.

The average Jason werth season is .280 with 25 HR and 90 Rbi's
He has some defensive versitility as he can play center adequately

Washington has some talented guys coming through the system and have done a much better job drafting like tampa did in their rise to promeninence. But they never made a terrible deal like this that 4 years from now when Washington may be good they will be saddled with a 36 year old guy with so so power in decline making 20+ million a year, and still have 3 years left.

I will disagree that Werths best season came in 2010. I think it was 2009. He put up his best stats in 2010, but he was really horrible with runners in scoring position. like .162 or even worse. He had a few streaks where he was awesome... like the first few weeks when he seemed to hit 3 doubles per game.. but he was the last person on the Phillies roster you wanted up to bat in crunch time this year.

no way on earth I'd want the phils to keep werth for 7 years 126 mil. I read they offered 3 years 54 mil, which is fine.

he is a very good outfielder though, and has a terrific arm. i believe he can also throw a 95 mph fast ball and play catcher quite well!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I will disagree that Werths best season came in 2010. I think it was 2009. He put up his best stats in 2010, but he was really horrible with runners in scoring position. like .162 or even worse. He had a few streaks where he was awesome... like the first few weeks when he seemed to hit 3 doubles per game.. but he was the last person on the Phillies roster you wanted up to bat in crunch time this year.

no way on earth I'd want the phils to keep werth for 7 years 126 mil. I read they offered 3 years 54 mil, which is fine.

he is a very good outfielder though, and has a terrific arm. i believe he can also throw a 95 mph fast ball and play catcher quite well!

Either way he is not a star player and you dont give non-stars long term contracts worth that kind of money. I thought the phils offered 4 for 64.

[slotdirt]

Circa 2005-2006, the Tigers had to grossly overpay to get anybody to come to Detroit. I think the Nationals are in a similar situation, and with the two faces of the franchise injured and/or in the minors through 2012 at the earliest, it seems like management felt they had to do something to keep fan interest.

[Heels1989]

Nats reportedly set to offer Cliff Lee a 7-year deal worth over $200 mil. He's good but.......7 yr and $200 mil?

Probably an attempt by the org to give impression to fan base that they are trying to spend money.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Heels1989

Nats reportedly set to offer Cliff Lee a 7-year deal worth over $200 mil. He's good but.......7 yr and $200 mil?

Probably an attempt by the org to give impression to fan base that they are trying to spend money.

Werth is a big mistake. This would be a monumental mistake unless they are ready to join the $150 million a year payroll. Werth and Lee alone would be 45 million. I guess the lessons of the SF world Series win are lost on the nats.

[jenroypa]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Werth is a big mistake. This would be a monumental mistake unless they are ready to join the $150 million a year payroll. Werth and Lee alone would be 45 million. I guess the lessons of the SF world Series win are lost on the nats.

Did I miss something? Did Barry Zito, Aaron Rowand and Edgar Renteria all decide to void their signings and give the $$ back? Giants payroll is in excess of $100 mill. and the 4 guys who carried them ( Lincecum, Cain, Wilson and Sanchez) make up less than 20 of that.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Werth is a big mistake. This would be a monumental mistake unless they are ready to join the $150 million a year payroll. Werth and Lee alone would be 45 million. I guess the lessons of the SF world Series win are lost on the nats.

It's only a mistake if his signing and potential failure prohibits them from adding payroll.. My understanding is the family is extremely wealthy WAY more then the Yanks ownership.. If they really dont give a crap about P/L and only care about making the franchise a success on the field..Then who gives a dam about 40mil xtra over 7 years..

Dan Snyder hasnt made a good signing EVER yet the Skins always have money to waste on anything on the Xmas list.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Circa 2005-2006, the Tigers had to grossly overpay to get anybody to come to Detroit. I think the Nationals are in a similar situation, and with the two faces of the franchise injured and/or in the minors through 2012 at the earliest, it seems like management felt they had to do something to keep fan interest.

I dont think this will create fan interest. As a matter of fact I dont think there was much non-Strausberg interest anyway.

Winning creates fan interest (except tampa, sorry Bigs/rudeboy)

They need their homegrown guys to create a strong base and then add to fill in the holes. Right now there are just too many holes. Second base, 1st base, left field, the bullpen, center field, the entire rotation, catcher.

The thing is they have pieces. Zimmerman the 3rd baseman is a very good player, Zimmerman the pitcher is probably the best pitcher they have coming into the season. Desmond at SS is pretty good. Espinosa at 2nd base may be ok. they have 2 really good catching prospects a year or 2 away. Obviously Strausberg. Obviously Harper.There are some pitching prospects a few years away. If they keep signing guys that are in their prime now but will be in decline in a few years they will hamstring themselves when they should be peaking AND raise the expectations too high now and maybe really do something dumb like trade prospects at the deadline.

[wiphan]

No luv for Shaun Marcum to the Brewers? Decent deal for the Crew and all they had to give up was a good catching prospect in Lawrie who you can find some nice pics on Deadspin or facebook. Marcum isn't a #1 but he is a solid 2 or 3 and should help improve the pitching staff

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by wiphan

No luv for Shaun Marcum to the Brewers? Decent deal for the Crew and all they had to give up was a good catching prospect in Lawrie who you can find some nice pics on Deadspin or facebook. Marcum isn't a #1 but he is a solid 2 or 3 and should help improve the pitching staff

Does anyone in Wisconsin really give a s.hit about any team not named the Packers?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont think this will create fan interest. As a matter of fact I dont think there was much non-Strausberg interest anyway.

Winning creates fan interest (except tampa, sorry Bigs/rudeboy)

They need their homegrown guys to create a strong base and then add to fill in the holes. Right now there are just too many holes. Second base, 1st base, left field, the bullpen, center field, the entire rotation, catcher.

The thing is they have pieces. Zimmerman the 3rd baseman is a very good player, Zimmerman the pitcher is probably the best pitcher they have coming into the season. Desmond at SS is pretty good. Espinosa at 2nd base may be ok. they have 2 really good catching prospects a year or 2 away. Obviously Strausberg. Obviously Harper.There are some pitching prospects a few years away. If they keep signing guys that are in their prime now but will be in decline in a few years they will hamstring themselves when they should be peaking AND raise the expectations too high now and maybe really do something dumb like trade prospects at the deadline.

I will give them a little credit. They are doing a pretty darn good job of marketing these days.

They did a bad job with the stadium design in that it is about as boring as you get but they do a really good job of making it extremely fan friendly.

On the baseball side, they have made some pretty poor moves starting with not trading adam dunn at the break for prospects and then letting him go for nothing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

On the baseball side, they have made some pretty poor moves starting with not trading adam dunn at the break for prospects and then letting him go for nothing.

I am almost positive that Dunn was a type A and they will get a 1st round draft pick for him.

edit-Dunn was a type A and Washington gets Chicago's 1st round pick and a sandwich pick (between the 1st and 2nd rounds). Essentially they get a 1st and 2nd round pick. Of course they may lose their own 1st rounder with the Werth signing which is another reason that was a bad deal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I suppose that guys arent banging down the door to go there but this is simply way too long and too much for a late blooming, non-star player. This is the type of deals Steinbrenner would make. Fans arent flocking to see Werth. The fact that he turns 32 in May makes it even worse than just overpaying. he had his best season this past year but at age 32 in a theoretically lesser juiced era there probably isnt much more improvement coming.

The average Jason werth season is .280 with 25 HR and 90 Rbi's
He has some defensive versitility as he can play center adequately

Washington has some talented guys coming through the system and have done a much better job drafting like tampa did in their rise to promeninence. But they never made a terrible deal like this that 4 years from now when Washington may be good they will be saddled with a 36 year old guy with so so power in decline making 20+ million a year, and still have 3 years left.

Jason Werth 2011
.229 avg
.333 obp
.391 slg
18 HR's
53 rbi's
24 2bs
.725 OPS
60 runs
16 sb

6 more years lol

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Jason Werth 2011
.229 avg
.333 obp
.391 slg
18 HR's
53 rbi's
24 2bs
.725 OPS
60 runs
16 sb

6 more years lol

Would you pay Fielder? I don't think the Crew has a shot to keep him, but would you pay him $20-25mil for 6-8yrs?