Poly speed disaster at keeneland

#1 10-11-2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I would have. When Turfway first went to Poly, u might remember that I was on the other forum talking about how the horses were staggering home in every race. The opening fractions were close to normal but closing ones have been ridiculously slow, an indicator to me that the track is a lot more tiring than regular dirt and puts speed at a distinct disadvantage. As Oracle has pointed out, this is contradictory to what breeders are looking for these days. The game is killing itself. Breed horses for speed and then build tracks that kill speed horses. Brilliant.

Its not exactly a good marketing plan is it?
Wait until some owners have some of the soundest high 6 figure yearling purchases you ever saw who haven't earned a quarter.
Lets see how fast they head east to the dirt.
East Coast tracks will react further than they already have, which has been good, by making sure they have good cushions and tracks with a good surface that is harrowed deeper. Sound is good, sound is very very good. Sound and everyone with talent and speed hitting a brick wall isn't good, not at all good.

The Bid · #2 10-11-2006, 07:27 PM

Just got off the phone with a guy in Canada. Chiefswood Farm, they will not be running over the poly anymore, they have had 3 come back bad, and 2 not come back at all. Lots of bad reports on Woodbines track from insiders. Amazingly Keeneland and Woodbine have the same surface, lets see how long it takes Keeneland to get real

#3 10-11-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

Just got off the phone with a guy in Canada. Chiefswood Farm, they will not be running over the poly anymore, they have had 3 come back bad, and 2 not come back at all. Lots of bad reports on Woodbines track from insiders. Amazingly Keeneland and Woodbine have the same surface, lets see how long it takes Keeneland to get real

I like it, I love it, I want some more of it.

Crown@club · #4 10-11-2006, 08:00 PM

Please! No Country Music!

The Bid · #5 10-11-2006, 08:04 PM

I mean I just got off the phone with the guy. He said a ton of horses are coming back bad, not just theirs. They are scared to run over the surface anymore. I wonder if Keeneland changed their track so it wasnt as bad as woodbines? Remember I reported a few days ago 3 or 4 had been put down, this guy said 2 of HIS have been put down. I didnt even have this guy in the equation

#6 10-11-2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

I mean I just got off the phone with the guy. He said a ton of horses are coming back bad, not just theirs. They are scared to run over the surface anymore. I wonder if Keeneland changed their track so it wasnt as bad as woodbines? Remember I reported a few days ago 3 or 4 had been put down, this guy said 2 of HIS have been put down. I didnt even have this guy in the equation

Its kinda like the old Soviet Union where the guy would be onscreen reading the news with a guy offscreen aiming a pistol at him making sure he read what he was supposed to. Kinda like, food shortage causing wonderful weight loss among Soviet citizens with a smile.
The news has been rather like that regarding poly. Wonder why? Couldn't be the money could it? Nah, not that.

The Bid · #7 10-11-2006, 08:32 PM

Keeneland made all the money, they have the same surface. You know they arent going to say anything bad about the track. I know Turfway told a few guys to keep their mouths shut, if they didnt like it they could leave. Thats just how it goes, eventually the real numbers will come out, and the polywonders will be left with egg on their face.

sumitas · #8 10-11-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

I mean I just got off the phone with the guy. He said a ton of horses are coming back bad, not just theirs. They are scared to run over the surface anymore. I wonder if Keeneland changed their track so it wasnt as bad as woodbines? Remember I reported a few days ago 3 or 4 had been put down, this guy said 2 of HIS have been put down. I didnt even have this guy in the equation

Keep repeating that lie and you still won't make it true. Keeneland is a new surface. It'll be like Turfway soon enough, where there is no bias (other than yours).

Rupert Pupkin · #9 10-12-2006, 01:16 PM

I haven't heard any reports from Woodbine so I can't comment on it. I can tell you that everyone loves the track at Hollywood Park so far. I think the reports from Kentucky have been quite positive too.

With regard to Keeneland, there used to be a huge speed bias. If there is an anti-speed bias now, that's not so bad. I don't care what the bias is. As long as we know what the bias is, then we can deal with it.

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other when it comes to polytrack. I can tell you that the surfaces in Southern California have been really bad for a long time now and we needed to do something. I would rather have polytrack than what we have had for the last several years. Anything is better than what we have had for the last several years. It would have probably been better if we could have put in good, new dirt tracks but I don't think anyone had confidence that the job would have been done right.

Round Pen · #10 10-11-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

Just got off the phone with a guy in Canada. Chiefswood Farm, they will not be running over the poly anymore, they have had 3 come back bad, and 2 not come back at all. Lots of bad reports on Woodbines track from insiders. Amazingly Keeneland and Woodbine have the same surface, lets see how long it takes Keeneland to get real

Funny thing I probably know more trainers at Woodbine than anyone else on this forum. I have spoken with 3 in the last week not going to drop names but between the 3 they have made over 600 starts at the meet. and all 3 love it. In fact one of them I speak to on a daily basis has told me that the poly has extended the careers of a few horses that more than likely would have been retired.

So this stuff is not all bad. I seem to be in the Minority here but I am not ready to codemn Poly track yet. But in the same instance I do not think every track should convert to poly either.

And Bid I am sure Chiefswood has had some bad Luck but Eric has run 9 horses in the last 30 Days and over 1/2 of them were on the Turf. And Correct me if I am wrong here they are not even stabled at the track dont they ship in from a training center.

disappearingdan_akaplaya · #11 10-11-2006, 11:44 PM

LOL its funny how all you heard in the past was people complaining that keeneland favored inside speed too much! track surfaces may change, new techology may be instituted etc etc etc but one thing will remain constant wherever there is gambling there is gonna be biatchin and whinin NO MATTER WHAT

sumitas · #12 10-11-2006, 11:58 PM

hahahar har LOLOL....

JJP · #13 10-12-2006, 12:00 AM

There is one good thing about this anti-speed bias that Kee has: when these tiring speed horses ship to other tracks, they will look worse on paper than they really are. Many juicy overlays coming at Churchill.

#14 10-11-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Its not exactly a good marketing plan is it?
Wait until some owners have some of the soundest high 6 figure yearling purchases you ever saw who haven't earned a quarter.
.

That's happened before Polytrack came along. There's alot of high dollared yearlings out there that haven't earned a fraction of what was paid for them. Dirt, Poly, Turf - has nothing to do with it.