Track privitization

randallscott35 · #1 10-05-2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

Dude.. People used to gather on the steps of the Stock Exchange to buy stocks too. If you live in the NOW then why do you not see that attendence at the track is meaningless due to the technological changes in wagering.

Huh, handle is down about 10% year over year(national). And that's after a year over year decline last year.

jms62 · #2 10-05-2010, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Huh, handle is down about 10% year over year(national). And that's after a year over year decline last year.

Did you account for the recession / depression we are now in?

randallscott35 · #3 10-05-2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

Did you account for the recession / depression we are now in?

YES!!!! Which is why I'm talking about ending subsidies in general, not specific to racing or any area.

jms62 · #4 10-05-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Huh, handle is down about 10% year over year(national). And that's after a year over year decline last year.

IT's really simple as I see it. Subsidy is a hot button word that people relate to bailing out the wall street gamblers. Mom and Pop want nothing to do with subsidies. Atlantic City didn't subsidize NJ racing.. It was a business agreement, a contract.. Atlantic City agreed to pay x million dollars if NJ didn't seek slots. NJ racing did what it was required to do to receive payment for services rendered. Now AC is calling that a subsidy in order to unite the masses against Horse Racing.. Christie is calling it a subsidy because his fat ass seems to be in bed with AC. AC no longer wants to enter in such a contract as they have the right to. NJ needs to get on the ballot, slots and sports betting at the racetracks so the industry can be competitive with neighboring states and save the BILLIONS of dollars of revenue that horse racing produces on track and off.

#5 10-05-2010, 12:35 PM

The racinos are a band-aid. When all of the tracks get them it will starve the smaller tracks that have them now.

What they need to do is add the racinos and legalize all drugs and prostitution but just let the tracks sell the drugs and whores.

That way the tracks can make money and still be horrendously incompetent.

Cannon Shell · #6 10-05-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

What they need to do is add the racinos and legalize all drugs and prostitution but just let the tracks sell the drugs and whores.

That way the tracks can make money and still be horrendously incompetent.

If horseman can get disount prices, I am all for this.

Note i asked for a discount, not a subsidy

alysheba4 · #7 10-05-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

The racinos are a band-aid. When all of the tracks get them it will starve the smaller tracks that have them now.

What they need to do is add the racinos and legalize all drugs and prostitution but just let the tracks sell the drugs and whores.

That way the tracks can make money and still be horrendously incompetent.

........i need a $2 tri box and a blumpkin

randallscott35 · #8 10-05-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerS

And as a follow up, since we are talking about the "NOW" should all businesses facing hard times now be shut down?

This is public money. Horse racing can and should be able to survive without public money....We aren't talking about your garbage pick up and police force.

philcski · #9 10-05-2010, 01:43 PM

They're watching in Vegas, too:
http://www.gamingtoday.com/industry/...aryland_casino

Cannon Shell · #10 10-05-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

This is public money. Horse racing can and should be able to survive without public money....We aren't talking about your garbage pick up and police force.

Like automakers and banks?

randallscott35 · #11 10-05-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Like automakers and banks?

I was against that too big guy...but you might have people say "the financial system is more important than horse racing." The auto bailouts made no sense. Nor did the banking ones IMO.

chucklestheclown · #12 10-05-2010, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Like automakers and banks?

Yes. And so what if Randall's honesty is negative.
And, unless you are in England, it is "privAtization," in England, it is "privAtiSation." Thank you for your support.

Cannon Shell · #13 10-05-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

Yes. And so what if Randall's honesty is negative.
And, unless you are in England, it is "privAtization," in England, it is "privAtiSation." Thank you for your support.

Honesty isn't in question here. Randall has totally oversimplified the entire situation and used quotes by politicians in doing so. I dont know which is worse. Or if you are a product of the NY education system, worser.

randallscott35 · #14 10-05-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Honesty isn't in question here. Randall has totally oversimplified the entire situation and used quotes by politicians in doing so. I dont know which is worse. Or if you are a product of the NY education system, worser.

Not in NJ I didn't....I can't speak for every jurisdiction. NJ racing is losing money and has been for many many years.

Cannon Shell · #15 10-05-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Not in NJ I didn't....I can't speak for every jurisdiction. NJ racing is losing money and has been for many many years.

What is "New Jersey racing"?

richard burch · #16 10-05-2010, 07:44 PM

just curious....are any of the california racetracks subsidized by the state?

parsixfarms · #17 10-05-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

This is public money. Horse racing can and should be able to survive without public money....We aren't talking about your garbage pick up and police force.

If government was simply OK with receiving income taxes on the thousands of people who work in the industry and taxes on items like admissions and concessions (where applicable), rather than acting as a parasite with parimutuel taxes, OTBs and the like, horse racing would probably be a self-sustaining, healthy industry. The problem isn't that government is getting too little from racing, it's that government is already getting too much. And now, when asked to give up a little of the excess that is is already receiving from the over-taxed industry, the politicians spin it into government "subsidizing" racing. Priceless!!

randallscott35 · #18 10-05-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

If government was simply OK with receiving income taxes on the thousands of people who work in the industry and taxes on items like admissions and concessions (where applicable), rather than acting as a parasite with parimutuel taxes, OTBs and the like, horse racing would probably be a self-sustaining, healthy industry. The problem isn't that government is getting too little from racing, it's that government is already getting too much. And now, when asked to give up a little of the excess that is is already receiving from the over-taxed industry, the politicians spin it into government "subsidizing" racing. Priceless!!

You are missing the point. Horse racing survives on gambling, not concessions or attendance...If every track needs VLTs than something is wrong with the business model. Of course it can be fixed. But don't expect government to be the one to fix it.

parsixfarms · #19 10-05-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You are missing the point. Horse racing survives on gambling, not concessions or attendance...If every track needs VLTs than something is wrong with the business model. Of course it can be fixed. But don't expect government to be the one to fix it.

No, it's you who are missing the point. If government didn't have its hands so deep into racing's pockets, tracks probably wouldn't need VLTs to survive. The "current model" is broken because of the heavy "taxes" that government imposes on racing, unlike other gambling enterprises such as casinos. (That's why the "takeout" at those venues can be so much lower than at race tracks.) The reason NYRA has the highest handle in the country yet purses that are not commensurate with that handle is the huge "skim" going to government. Alex Waldrop spelled this out very well in testimony earlier this year to the NYS Senate Racing Committee.

randallscott35 · #20 10-05-2010, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

No, it's you who are missing the point. If government didn't have its hands so deep into racing's pockets, tracks probably wouldn't need VLTs to survive. The "current model" is broken because of the heavy "taxes" that government imposes on racing, unlike other gambling enterprises such as casinos. (That's why the "takeout" at those venues can be so much lower than at race tracks.) The reason NYRA has the highest handle in the country yet purses that are not commensurate with that handle is the huge "skim" going to government. Alex Waldrop spelled this out very well in testimony earlier this year to the NYS Senate Racing Committee.

That skim is specific to issues within NY state, that is not the same issue in NJ. OTB issues, that have nothing to do with NJ issues which is what this thread started out as. You are trying to paint with a broad brush. The government is part of the problem, to say it is the whole problem in racing is untrue.