Track privitization

randallscott35 · #1 10-05-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerS

And as a follow up, since we are talking about the "NOW" should all businesses facing hard times now be shut down?

This is public money. Horse racing can and should be able to survive without public money....We aren't talking about your garbage pick up and police force.

philcski · #2 10-05-2010, 02:43 PM

They're watching in Vegas, too:
http://www.gamingtoday.com/industry/...aryland_casino

Cannon Shell · #3 10-05-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

This is public money. Horse racing can and should be able to survive without public money....We aren't talking about your garbage pick up and police force.

Like automakers and banks?

randallscott35 · #4 10-05-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Like automakers and banks?

I was against that too big guy...but you might have people say "the financial system is more important than horse racing." The auto bailouts made no sense. Nor did the banking ones IMO.

chucklestheclown · #5 10-05-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Like automakers and banks?

Yes. And so what if Randall's honesty is negative.
And, unless you are in England, it is "privAtization," in England, it is "privAtiSation." Thank you for your support.

Cannon Shell · #6 10-05-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

Yes. And so what if Randall's honesty is negative.
And, unless you are in England, it is "privAtization," in England, it is "privAtiSation." Thank you for your support.

Honesty isn't in question here. Randall has totally oversimplified the entire situation and used quotes by politicians in doing so. I dont know which is worse. Or if you are a product of the NY education system, worser.

randallscott35 · #7 10-05-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Honesty isn't in question here. Randall has totally oversimplified the entire situation and used quotes by politicians in doing so. I dont know which is worse. Or if you are a product of the NY education system, worser.

Not in NJ I didn't....I can't speak for every jurisdiction. NJ racing is losing money and has been for many many years.

Cannon Shell · #8 10-05-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Not in NJ I didn't....I can't speak for every jurisdiction. NJ racing is losing money and has been for many many years.

What is "New Jersey racing"?

randallscott35 · #9 10-05-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What is "New Jersey racing"?

Is this a real question? Monmouth and the Meadowlands. And yes our budget shortfall and is in the billions per year currently. Would you like to reduce the school lunch program or close Harness racing as a starting point.

richard burch · #10 10-05-2010, 08:44 PM

just curious....are any of the california racetracks subsidized by the state?

parsixfarms · #11 10-05-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

This is public money. Horse racing can and should be able to survive without public money....We aren't talking about your garbage pick up and police force.

If government was simply OK with receiving income taxes on the thousands of people who work in the industry and taxes on items like admissions and concessions (where applicable), rather than acting as a parasite with parimutuel taxes, OTBs and the like, horse racing would probably be a self-sustaining, healthy industry. The problem isn't that government is getting too little from racing, it's that government is already getting too much. And now, when asked to give up a little of the excess that is is already receiving from the over-taxed industry, the politicians spin it into government "subsidizing" racing. Priceless!!

randallscott35 · #12 10-05-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

If government was simply OK with receiving income taxes on the thousands of people who work in the industry and taxes on items like admissions and concessions (where applicable), rather than acting as a parasite with parimutuel taxes, OTBs and the like, horse racing would probably be a self-sustaining, healthy industry. The problem isn't that government is getting too little from racing, it's that government is already getting too much. And now, when asked to give up a little of the excess that is is already receiving from the over-taxed industry, the politicians spin it into government "subsidizing" racing. Priceless!!

You are missing the point. Horse racing survives on gambling, not concessions or attendance...If every track needs VLTs than something is wrong with the business model. Of course it can be fixed. But don't expect government to be the one to fix it.

parsixfarms · #13 10-05-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You are missing the point. Horse racing survives on gambling, not concessions or attendance...If every track needs VLTs than something is wrong with the business model. Of course it can be fixed. But don't expect government to be the one to fix it.

No, it's you who are missing the point. If government didn't have its hands so deep into racing's pockets, tracks probably wouldn't need VLTs to survive. The "current model" is broken because of the heavy "taxes" that government imposes on racing, unlike other gambling enterprises such as casinos. (That's why the "takeout" at those venues can be so much lower than at race tracks.) The reason NYRA has the highest handle in the country yet purses that are not commensurate with that handle is the huge "skim" going to government. Alex Waldrop spelled this out very well in testimony earlier this year to the NYS Senate Racing Committee.

randallscott35 · #14 10-05-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

No, it's you who are missing the point. If government didn't have its hands so deep into racing's pockets, tracks probably wouldn't need VLTs to survive. The "current model" is broken because of the heavy "taxes" that government imposes on racing, unlike other gambling enterprises such as casinos. (That's why the "takeout" at those venues can be so much lower than at race tracks.) The reason NYRA has the highest handle in the country yet purses that are not commensurate with that handle is the huge "skim" going to government. Alex Waldrop spelled this out very well in testimony earlier this year to the NYS Senate Racing Committee.

That skim is specific to issues within NY state, that is not the same issue in NJ. OTB issues, that have nothing to do with NJ issues which is what this thread started out as. You are trying to paint with a broad brush. The government is part of the problem, to say it is the whole problem in racing is untrue.

Cannon Shell · #15 10-05-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

That skim is specific to issues within NY state, that is not the same issue in NJ. OTB issues, that have nothing to do with NJ issues which is what this thread started out as. You are trying to paint with a broad brush. The government is part of the problem, to say it is the whole problem in racing is untrue.

They arent made out to be a problem because they are quite profitable and the state doesnt want to give them up.

Cannon Shell · #16 10-05-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You are missing the point. Horse racing survives on gambling, not concessions or attendance...If every track needs VLTs than something is wrong with the business model. Of course it can be fixed. But don't expect government to be the one to fix it.

Aren't VLT's a form of gambling? Why should tracks be prevented from exploring other avenues of gambling when the current landscape already allows that in competiting states? Isn't the gov't restricting the types of gambling allowed at track in NJ? So if they want to play favorites with private gambling businesses, why shouldn't the racetrack get paid if they arent allowed to expand their menu? The state shouldnt be in the racetrack business because most states cant run any business profitably. But that doesn't mean that the racetracks aren't still hamstrung by the states decisions.

randallscott35 · #17 10-05-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Aren't VLT's a form of gambling? Why should tracks be prevented from exploring other avenues of gambling when the current landscape already allows that in competiting states? Isn't the gov't restricting the types of gambling allowed at track in NJ? So if they want to play favorites with private gambling businesses, why shouldn't the racetrack get paid if they arent allowed to expand their menu? The state shouldnt be in the racetrack business because most states cant run any business profitably. But that doesn't mean that the racetracks aren't still hamstrung by the states decisions.

Once again Chuck it is tiring to say the same thing over again. I was against the bailouts. I am against the state helping casinos, I am against the state helping the autos, I am against the state helping horse racing if it means losing millions of taxpayer dollars in the process. Why you continually change the subject is beyond me...

Explore away on VLTs. I'm at a loss for seeing how pulling a handle is helping boost the sport in any kind of long term way. I don't expect someone who works in the industry to turn down a handout.

Cannon Shell · #18 10-05-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Once again Chuck it is tiring to say the same thing over again. I was against the bailouts. I am against the state helping casinos, I am against the state helping the autos, I am against the state helping horse racing if it means losing millions of taxpayer dollars in the process. Why you continually change the subject is beyond me...

Explore away on VLTs. I'm at a loss for seeing how pulling a handle is helping boost the sport in any kind of long term way. I don't expect someone who works in the industry to turn down a handout.

You simply refuse to understand the issue. Companies and industry doesnt operate in a vacuum, they pay taxes and employ people as well. The "subsidies" that you refer to in NJ are directly related to VLT's. That is pretty obvious to us 'insiders'.

randallscott35 · #19 10-05-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You simply refuse to understand the issue. Companies and industry doesnt operate in a vacuum, they pay taxes and employ people as well. The "subsidies" that you refer to in NJ are directly related to VLT's. That is pretty obvious to us 'insiders'.

You aren't an insider. Your bread is buttered by the industry which in effect calls everything you would say on this into question.