Weekend Stakes Beyers

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I think there seems to be an effort being made by those in the media, to make Zenyatta into this all time great.

Between the totally brainless stuff written up by Davidowitz, and I think Haskin, to the pure blabber coming out of the talking heads at TVG, to the hyped up BCC call by Denman, and supposedly experienced and otherwise fairly intelligent 'insiders' saying she's go great, it just seems like there is a lot of effort going on to make us believe she's the second coming of Secretariat.

I mean really, all this stuff is just total nonsense. I've never seen so many people lose their heads over something that really isn't nearly as great as they seem to think.

It's all rather UN - BE - LIEVE - A -BLE!!

She is 19 for 19 and there is nothing about that to indicate TOTAL NONSENSE. Last year heading into the BC, I was supportive of RA for horse of the year, no doubt. Coming out of the BC Classic, I wasn't so clear on the subject, though after watching RA lay her guts on the line at Saratoga, in person, and really never seeing anything like that live (with the crowd and all) I was still an RA supporter.

This year, after being "retired", Zenatta's accomplishements, though to this point against competition that is not as talented as what RA faced last year, is remarkable in its own right. Who has accomplised more than she has in her lifetime? In the fashion that she does it? Against the level of compettiton that she does it against? Over and over and over? She has won me over, and besides all of the non-sense on TVG and the other folks that are overcompensating for their belief that Z was shafted last year, why is there so much hate for what is going on with her? Is there some other horse that would otherwise be considered an "all-time great" if Z wasn't in the picture?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

She is 19 for 19 and there is nothing about that to indicate TOTAL NONSENSE. Last year heading into the BC, I was supportive of RA for horse of the year, no doubt. Coming out of the BC Classic, I wasn't so clear on the subject, though after watching RA lay her guts on the line at Saratoga, in person, and really never seeing anything like that live (with the crowd and all) I was still an RA supporter.

This year, after being "retired", Zenatta's accomplishements, though to this point against competition that is not as talented as what RA faced last year, is remarkable in its own right. Who has accomplised more than she has in her lifetime? In the fashion that she does it? Against the level of compettiton that she does it against? Over and over and over? She has won me over, and besides all of the non-sense on TVG and the other folks that are overcompensating for their belief that Z was shafted last year, why is there so much hate for what is going on with her? Is there some other horse that would otherwise be considered an "all-time great" if Z wasn't in the picture?

Off the top of my head I can really only think of:


Affirmed
Secretariat
Citation
Kelso
Count Fleet
Dr. Fager
Phar Lap
John Henry
Native Dancer
Forego
Seattle Slew
Spectacular Bid
Tom Fool
Man O' War
War Admiral
Buckpasser
Colin
Damascus
Cigar
Bold Ruler
Swaps
Nashua
Seabiscuit
Whirlaway
Alydar
Ruffian
Alysheba
Northern Dancer
Sword Dancer
Riva Ridge
Slew o'Gold
Native Diver
Silver Charm
Holy Bull
Sunday Silence
Easy Goer
Skip Away


But I'm sure there are probably several dozen more that I'm not thinking about.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Off the top of my head I can really only think of:


Affirmed
Secretariat
Citation
Kelso
Count Fleet
Dr. Fager
Native Dancer
Forego
Seattle Slew
Spectacular Bid
Tom Fool
Man O' War
War Admiral
Buckpasser
Colin
Damascus
Cigar
Bold Ruler
Swaps
Phar Lap
John Henry
Nashua
Seabiscuit
Whirlaway
Alydar
Ruffian
Alysheba
Northern Dancer
Sword Dancer
Riva Ridge
Slew o'Gold
Native Diver
Silver Charm
Holy Bull
Sunday Silence
Easy Goer
Skip Away


But I'm sure there are probably several dozen more that I'm not thinking about.

She's never lost a race and won 17 graded stakes races in a row. I can't recall if any of the one's you mention did that or not, can you? It doesn't make her better than them, but "one of the" shouldn't be discounted.

From what I can tell none of those have run this century. How is Zenatta overshadowing them?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

From what I can tell none of those have run this century. How is Zenatta overshadowing them?

You know her name is Zenyatta, right?

[NoLuvForPletch]

I'd say typo but i did it twice. But yes I know her name is Zenyatta.

Thanks

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

She's never lost a race and won 17 graded stakes races in a row. I can't recall if any of the one's you mention did that or not, can you? It doesn't make her better than them, but "one of the" shouldn't be discounted.

Let's take a look at just one horse off the list....I'll pick....Affirmed.
Did he win 17 in a row? Nope.
Winning 17 in a row isn't particularly easy when you race against Alydar, Exceller, Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Coastal, Sensitive Prince, etc. time after time....over the course of a career.
So if you ask me who accomplished more between Affirmed and Zenyatta, to me, it isn't even close....despite her impressive streak.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Let's take one horse off the list....Affirmed.
Did he win 17 in a row? Nope.
Winning 17 in a row isn't particularly easy when you race against Alydar, Exceller, Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Coastal, Sensitive Prince, etc. time after time....over the course of a career.
So if you ask me who accomplished more between Affirmed and Zenyatta, to me, it isn't even close....despite her impressive streak.

That's cool. I like Affirmed and a whole lot of others on the list of "all time greats" on the list you supplied. I'm just saying there is no need to omit her from the list because you don't think she is the best of all time. I don't think she is the best of all time either. See we can agree on something.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

That's cool. I like Affirmed and a whole lot of others on the list of "all time greats" on the list you supplied. I'm just saying there is no need to omit her from the list because you don't think she is the best of all time. I don't think she is the best of all time either. See we can agree on something.

Unfortunately for everyone....a great deal of where she "deserves" to be ranked on a list of say, the top-50 thoroughbreds of all time, has been left up to one race because of her foolish connections. If she wins the BCC in style it would be difficult to justify completely keeping her off such a list no matter how much some (including me) might want to do it.
If she runs poorly and finishes off the board, however, it should be pretty easy for everyone to keep her off such a list, although I'm certain many still won't.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

She is 19 for 19 and there is nothing about that to indicate TOTAL NONSENSE. Last year heading into the BC, I was supportive of RA for horse of the year, no doubt. Coming out of the BC Classic, I wasn't so clear on the subject, though after watching RA lay her guts on the line at Saratoga, in person, and really never seeing anything like that live (with the crowd and all) I was still an RA supporter.

This year, after being "retired", Zenatta's accomplishements, though to this point against competition that is not as talented as what RA faced last year, is remarkable in its own right. Who has accomplised more than she has in her lifetime? In the fashion that she does it? Against the level of compettiton that she does it against? Over and over and over? She has won me over, and besides all of the non-sense on TVG and the other folks that are overcompensating for their belief that Z was shafted last year, why is there so much hate for what is going on with her? Is there some other horse that would otherwise be considered an "all-time great" if Z wasn't in the picture?

Who again is zenatta?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

This year, after being "retired", Zenatta's accomplishements, though to this point against competition that is not as talented as what RA faced last year, is remarkable in its own right.

Other than a desperate win over St. Trinians at 9fs - She's accomplished very little this year.

The rest of her races - she was a justifable 1/20 shot on paper - in races that should have only been interesting to you if you bridgejumped her in the place pool.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Other than a desperate win over St. Trinians at 9fs - She's accomplished very little this year.

The rest of her races - she was a justifable 1/20 shot on paper - in races that should have only been interesting to you if you bridgejumped her in the place pool.

When we were all annointing RA queen last year, who was she beating? Nothing other than the horses that she lined up to race against, which looking back includes a pretty weak group of animals. Where do Macho Again and Summer Bird rank on your list of "horses I would never want to face"?

Yes, she should win these races she is competing in. Was she supposed to win the Classic last year? It's a good thing Haynesfield isn't running in the Classic this year because she'd never catch him. Haynesfield who just embarrassed our hero Blame, who beat our hero Quality Road. She is the best of what we've got right now. And if it's a watered down group, so be it.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

When we were all annointing RA queen last year, who was she beating? Nothing other than the horses that she lined up to race against, which looking back includes a pretty weak group of animals. Where do Macho Again and Summer Bird rank on your list of "horses I would never want to face"?

Yes, she should win these races she is competing in. Was she supposed to win the Classic last year? It's a good thing Haynesfield isn't running in the Classic this year because she'd never catch him. Haynesfield who just embarrassed our hero Blame, who beat our hero Quality Road. She is the best of what we've got right now. And if it's a watered down group, so be it.

Haynesville wouldn't be running alone in the classic. There will be other front runners pressing. In my opinion Haynesville running in the classic helps both Zenyatta and Blame.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Yes, she should win these races she is competing in. Was she supposed to win the Classic last year? It's a good thing Haynesfield isn't running in the Classic this year because she'd never catch him. Haynesfield who just embarrassed our hero Blame, who beat our hero Quality Road. She is the best of what we've got right now. And if it's a watered down group, so be it.

Did they say he wasn't running in the Classic on ATR or something? Monday's show isn't up in the archives yet, but this piece in DRF sounds like the BCC is quite likely if he's doing well after the race. http://www.drf.com/news/haynesfield-...gold-cup-upset They don't seem excited about having to go back to a mile after doing the 1 1/4.

[somerfrost]

We always hear..."who did the horse beat?", the answer in Z's case...."everybody entered against her." A perfect record is a perfect record, Z deserves the praise she's getting and it's reflective of the cynical mindset of horse players that so many line up to diss her. I thought she deserved HOY last year but I understood RA's victory, this year....there is no question who is the best horse in training. All time great...time will tell, we should revisit that question after the BCC. In the meantime, I will relish her victories and pray for one more!

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

In the meantime, I will relish her victories and pray for one more!

This reminds me of this prudey old woman that came into my computer store two weeks ago.

She wanted us to fix her laptop, which wasn't turning on. She kept trying to describe problems in a form of English we were unfamiliar with and after about five minutes, my business partner had the brilliant insight to ask her if she had kept the laptop on while in her laptop carrying case.

She said yes.

We then spent the next ten minutes in a three way conversation that went something like this.

Us - " What happened was that by keeping it on while closed up in the case, it ended up gettting too hot in there and the computer cooked itself to death".

Prudey woman - "Ohhhhhhhhhh. Buttt, but, it was working before that"

Us - "Ugh. Yeah, it was working before that because that was before you had killed your laptop. Once you cooked it, the solder melts on the motherboard and your computer can no longer power on."

Prudey woman - "Ah. Well, blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. Hey, wait a second, how come it was working before I did that?"

Us - "Have you ever heard of cause and effect? What this means is that when you perform an action that has a consequence, that consequence only effects things in the future. It is not retroactive, meaning it doesn't change our past."

Prudey woman - "That reminds me of this time blah blah blah. More blah blah. But why won't the computer work now??"

Us - "Because it's dead and you murdered it. We can try to fix it by baking the entire motherboard, but that is almost certainly not going to work in your case because you've probably fried the CPU."

We had to explain the before and after thing to her five to six times.

Finally, when she gave up, we had one last exchange.

Prudey woman - "Well, thank you very much, you've been very kind. I'm going to take my laptop and say a prayer for it"

Me - "Well, good luck with that one and let me know how that turns out for you."

Prudey woman - "Ok. You never know about how these things will turn out!"

Me - "Yep. If it does work for you, let me know and you'll have yourself a job here!"

I really needed a hug at that point.

Come to think of it, that Prudey woman kinda reminds me of Prudery.

Woah.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

This reminds me of this prudey old woman that came into my computer store two weeks ago.

She wanted us to fix her laptop, which wasn't turning on. She kept trying to describe problems in a form of English we were unfamiliar with and after about five minutes, my business partner had the brilliant insight to ask her if she had kept the laptop on while in her laptop carrying case.

She said yes.

We then spent the next ten minutes in a three way conversation that went something like this.

Us - " What happened was that by keeping it on while closed up in the case, it ended up gettting too hot in there and the computer cooked itself to death".

Prudey woman - "Ohhhhhhhhhh. Buttt, but, it was working before that"

Us - "Ugh. Yeah, it was working before that because that was before you had killed your laptop. Once you cooked it, the solder melts on the motherboard and your computer can no longer power on."

Prudey woman - "Ah. Well, blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. Hey, wait a second, how come it was working before I did that?"

Us - "Have you ever heard of cause and effect? What this means is that when you perform an action that has a consequence, that consequence only effects things in the future. It is not retroactive, meaning it doesn't change our past."

Prudey woman - "That reminds me of this time blah blah blah. More blah blah. But why won't the computer work now??"

Us - "Because it's dead and you murdered it. We can try to fix it by baking the entire motherboard, but that is almost certainly not going to work in your case because you've probably fried the CPU."

We had to explain the before and after thing to her five to six times.

Finally, when she gave up, we had one last exchange.

Prudey woman - "Well, thank you very much, you've been very kind. I'm going to take my laptop and say a prayer for it"

Me - "Well, good luck with that one and let me know how that turns out for you."

Prudey woman - "Ok. You never know about how these things will turn out!"

Me - "Yep. If it does work for you, let me know and you'll have yourself a job here!"

I really needed a hug at that point.

Come to think of it, that Prudey woman kinda reminds me of Prudery.

Woah.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

I'm not making that story up. It really happened. While I did paraphrase a bit, we really did get condescending to her.

I swear, the only thing she needed was a Zenyatta T-shirt.