BEYER: Defining Zenyatta's historical role

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by goingtothewhip

Please don't waste any more of your energy. I'm not as impressed w/ your perspective as you seem to be.

Don't worry, I won't. It's obvious you're completely incapable of a discussion on any portion of the topic.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Like I said before, just do some simple math:

1000+ Zenyatta is great posts + 1 Zenyatta might lose in the BCC post + 1 non Zenyatta post + 2 really pathetic attempts at making up insulting nicknames = I AM A TARD

There you go again with the typos.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by goingtothewhip

Feel the rage. LoL.

People that are wagering on the tracks in question probably care what type of synthetic surfaces they are dealing with. Thus my comment on using the generic term synthetic being misleading.

Sorry my pointless canard has left a nasty taste on your palate, but the fact is neither have any bearing on how good she is. To let those factors sully your opinion of a horse seems kind of silly.

FTFY

Steve hates pointless canards, by the way...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Misleading? Who cares which brand of synthetic track any of them are? It's all moot since they're all going to be forgotten. The underlying point is that the entire synthetic track disaster is going to ultimately be regarded as a footnote in racing history, the way Tartan Track is for instance. That is at the core of Beyer's piece.

People that want to elevate results produced on synthetic tracks to the level of the previous century of racing history refuse to acknowledge certain facts. One is that a generation of horses bred to perform on racing's irrefutable main track surface were denied an opportunity to make their marks if they were forced to spend their career on synthetic surfaces (of any brand).

The second is that horses with previously established levels of achievement (or excellence) on racing's principal main track surface, were forced unrealistically and unfairly to try to succeed in two irrelevant Breeders' Cups held on the patchwork synthetic surface at Santa Anita in 2008-09.

And the central theme, and frustration, of those questioning Zenyatta's possible historical greatness, is that her connections denied her very real, plausible and myriad opportunities available to provide definition by irrefutable standards of how good she is/was... And as a frank aside, the fact that wild-eyed fans of hers cannot discern that nuance is what has now made her so unpalatable to those that legitimately question her achievements beyond the core performances that lend credence to how good a horse she has been.

well said....

[chucklestheclown]

WTF? Keeneland, Del Mar, Hollywood, Arlington and Dubai have synthetic tracks. It DOES make a difference in knowing the differences between them. Anyone who doesn't think so should get their head examined...or not...like that other guy said, I'll just take your money.

[JerseyJ]

This is getting beyond the point of ridiculous with the Zenyattatards. It really is. The big issue is that while her zealots continue to call her the best ever without taking into account the circumstances under which she picked up her wins with. Except for two very weak editions of the Apple Blossom where obviously, she wasn't forced to run an exceptional race, she has run every race of her career on synthetic tracks, types of synthetics not withstanding because the synthetic track make-up has always seemd to cater towards the running style of Zenyatta which is to make that sweeping wide last move into the stretch, always more often successful on the synthetic tracks or turf than dirt.

Let's be honest here, she has never had to run on a track which really could prove her greatness or run against a field which was brought together that would prove how great she is. She has never had to deal with slow fractions on dirt that would put her up against it coming from off the pace. As an add on to this, she's never had to deal with a negative track bias as her running style picks up a positive bias out in So Cal on those synthetic tracks. Just look at Sinister Minister the one year in Keeneland in the Blue Grass. Was he a legitimate top class, G1 horse? Not a chance in hell and at any other track he's probably up the track in the Blue Grass. But on that one day he used his speed to ride the ridiculous bias to a dominating G1 victory because no one was going to catch that horse on that track on that day. We've never had a day where she's run where she's been up against a speed bias on a dirt track where front runners aren't coming back to the field, or where she's had to run down a top class horse on the dirt. Simply put she's never faced any adversity. It's equivalent to being a Major League caliber ballplayer who dominates AAA his whole career, gets called up to the Majors a few times, always hits well in his cups of coffee and yet continues to get sent down each year for higher regarded prospects.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

This is getting beyond the point of ridiculous with the Zenyattatards. It really is. The big issue is that while her zealots continue to call her the best ever without taking into account the circumstances under which she picked up her wins with. Except for two very weak editions of the Apple Blossom where obviously, she wasn't forced to run an exceptional race, she has run every race of her career on synthetic tracks, types of synthetics not withstanding because the synthetic track make-up has always seemd to cater towards the running style of Zenyatta which is to make that sweeping wide last move into the stretch, always more often successful on the synthetic tracks or turf than dirt.

Let's be honest here, she has never had to run on a track which really could prove her greatness or run against a field which was brought together that would prove how great she is. She has never had to deal with slow fractions on dirt that would put her up against it coming from off the pace. As an add on to this, she's never had to deal with a negative track bias as her running style picks up a positive bias out in So Cal on those synthetic tracks. Just look at Sinister Minister the one year in Keeneland in the Blue Grass. Was he a legitimate top class, G1 horse? Not a chance in hell and at any other track he's probably up the track in the Blue Grass. But on that one day he used his speed to ride the ridiculous bias to a dominating G1 victory because no one was going to catch that horse on that track on that day. We've never had a day where she's run where she's been up against a speed bias on a dirt track where front runners aren't coming back to the field, or where she's had to run down a top class horse on the dirt. Simply put she's never faced any adversity. It's equivalent to being a Major League caliber ballplayer who dominates AAA his whole career, gets called up to the Majors a few times, always hits well in his cups of coffee and yet continues to get sent down each year for higher regarded prospects.

Ya she blows

[JerseyJ]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Ya she blows

Yeah that's exactly what I said...reading comprehension might help.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

Yeah that's exactly what I said...reading comprehension might help.

Oh I can comprehend it...I just can't believe an intelligent person drafted it

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Oh I can comprehend it...I just can't believe an intelligent person drafted it

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with one.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with one.

Well I always admire your work

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Ya she blows

When will Zenyatta's legions of fans realize and accept that her supposed "detractors" also think she is a really good horse. Nobody is saying she "blows." I think EVERYBODY is impressed with her consistency and her ability to retain form year after year. She also deserves (and gets) credit for winning races on three different types of synthetic surfaces and dirt. A lot of good horses can't do that, and she can.

Okay fine. She's a really good horse. Nobody really disputes that.

It is only when people start saying she is one of the best ever that her supposed "detractors" rightfully begin to raise points against her.
There is a big range between "blows" and "one of the best ever." In my opinion, she fits somewhere in that range.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Well I always admire your work

Whoever said I was intelligent!?

I almost never post anything longer than too sentences!

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Whoever said I was intelligent!?

I almost never post anything longer than too sentences!

Some people could learn from your style

[Smooth Operator]

Oh my God...

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by miraja2

When will Zenyatta's legions of fans realize and accept that her supposed "detractors" also think she is a really good horse. Nobody is saying she "blows." I think EVERYBODY is impressed with her consistency and her ability to retain form year after year. She also deserves (and gets) credit for winning races on three different types of synthetic surfaces and dirt. A lot of good horses can't do that, and she can.

Okay fine. She's a really good horse. Nobody really disputes that.

It is only when people start saying she is one of the best ever that her supposed "detractors" rightfully begin to raise points against her.
There is a big range between "blows" and "one of the best ever." In my opinion, she fits somewhere in that range.

Hey I agree with you she is a very good horse. I never said she was the greatest ever. His post basically said she is comparable to a AAA baseball player. She is much better than that.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Oh my God...

Ya I started drinking early today. Need it for the PSU game tonight

[JerseyJ]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Oh I can comprehend it...I just can't believe an intelligent person drafted it

What exactly there genius is inaccurate about what I said? Her biggest adversity she's ever faced is having Mike Smith on her back, and with each "scintillating" win, Moss and Sherriffs have had the opportunity to run her in bigger and better races and each time they have kept her at the lower levels of racing rather than stepping out of the box and challenging her and gulp, facing some males...

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Oh my God...

What do you want now?

[JerseyJ]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Hey I agree with you she is a very good horse. I never said she was the greatest ever. His post basically said she is comparable to a AAA baseball player. She is much better than that.

I never said that she is a AAA baseball player..I compared her to the plight of a guy who is always better than a AAA player but who never gets an extended shot in the majors to show how good he is or can be. She's proven time and time again obviously she's deserving of taking on bigger and better things but she never gets a chance because of her cowardly connections.