Saratoga 5th - No DQ?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

If that's your POV that's fine, it's consistency that bettors want

Yes - you prefer consistency ... although if the winner does that - and the horse it fouls is beaten a head for 3rd place .. it's a DQ because it cost a horse a placing...and than you feel the pain of the bettor who played the best horse at 8/1 - or the owner who paid 2K a month in training bills and gets placed 4th with the best horse.

If the incident has no impact at all on the outcome in any way shape or form ... don't change it and fine the jockey and give him days.

[CSC]

If anything I would have DQ'd Bridgmohan just for riding so pathetically, he had the best horse in the race, but he negotiated the turn/split like a 10lb apprentice would. For a journeyman jock that has been around as long as he has, it was not a good effort.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

His caliber?

There are about 4.5 jocks in the country who can make a positive impact most of the time. After that you have another several hundred meat and potato guys spread throughout the country who - in general - aren't separated by much ability wise...they're merely separated by the opportunities they get.

After that class, you have the guys who could stop the Yankees.

No factor in handicapping is more overrated than the jockey factor.

[NTamm1215]

It's about consistency. It's about maintaining a straight course. These are things that used to matter to the stewards in NY. There have been DQs on this circuit for infractions that were significantly less severe.

I'm no jockey but I would think that a horse being swung out into another horse knocking that one off stride is a great way for a jockey to fall off. Or is that nonsense?

NT

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

It's about consistency. It's about maintaining a straight course. These are things that used to matter to the stewards in NY. There have been DQs on this circuit for infractions that were significantly less severe.

What does the severity of the foul matter if it obviously had no impact on the outcome of the race?

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm no jockey but I would think that a horse being swung out into another horse knocking that one off stride is a great way for a jockey to fall off. Or is that nonsense?

I agree that he should be fined and should get days. It's typically when the horse that has more run is kept in where big trouble happens. Not from something like that.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

What does the severity of the foul matter if it obviously had no impact on the outcome of the race?

I know what you are saying, however in many races many horses don't have an impact in the outcome of the race even before the gate opens, by your reasoning one of these no chancer's could be mugged during the race and no action will be taken by the stewards. In essence if a horse can't win a race, they can never be fouled? This makes absolutely no sense.

[Linny]

The the victim in this race was not going to win, the case could be made that she might have had a better placing had she not been hit. "Outcome" doesn't just refer to the top spot.

[CSC]

The difference between Leparioux and The Boogyman is infantesimal when you watch Julien's ride in the 7th, he almost never panics, he waited for room on the turn and the horse won. If that was the Boogyman he would have side wiped a few horses just desperate to get out in time.

Originally Posted by CSC

The difference between Leparioux and The Boogyman is infantesimal when you watch Julien's ride in the 7th, he almost never panics, he waited for room on the turn and the horse won. If that was the Boogyman he would have side wiped a few horses desperate to get out.

Nevermind the fact you're comparing a turf route to a dirt sprint but don't let that stop you...nothing ever does so why start now?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Nevermind the fact you're comparing a turf route to a dirt sprint but don't let that stop you...nothing ever does so why start now?

Have you watched him on turf? I recognize the difference in surfaces but that is minutia in the discussion of a patient ride and a panicked one.

Originally Posted by CSC

Have you watched him on turf? I recognize the difference in surfaces but that is minutia in the discussion of a patient ride and a panicked one.

So Bridgmohan panicked? That's good to know.

The way his horse was moving if he had waited then he more than likely would have to pull the reins and that is almost certain death in a dirt race at that point in the race.

In a turf ROUTE it's a completely different story.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

No factor in handicapping is more overrated than the jockey factor.

Definitely. The only time I look is when the horse I'm considering has a horrendous rider... I feel like they can move a horse down way more easily than the other way around.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes - you prefer consistency ... although if the winner does that - and the horse it fouls is beaten a head for 3rd place .. it's a DQ because it cost a horse a placing...and than you feel the pain of the bettor who played the best horse at 8/1 - or the owner who paid 2K a month in training bills and gets placed 4th with the best horse.

If the incident has no impact at all on the outcome in any way shape or form ... don't change it and fine the jockey and give him days.

exactly! the owner, trainer shouldn't be penalized if the jock's an idiot. penalize the jock, give him incentive to do things right.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes - you prefer consistency ... although if the winner does that - and the horse it fouls is beaten a head for 3rd place .. it's a DQ because it cost a horse a placing...and than you feel the pain of the bettor who played the best horse at 8/1 - or the owner who paid 2K a month in training bills and gets placed 4th with the best horse.

If the incident has no impact at all on the outcome in any way shape or form ... don't change it and fine the jockey and give him days.

$2k a month in training bills? It's more like $3.5k-$4k a month at the big tracks when you include the vet bills. Most guys charge $85-$90 a day. The top guys charge $105-$110 a day. At $90 a day, it costs you $2,700 a month not including the vet bill. The vet bill wil be at least $800 a month. So you're usually looking at a minimum of around $3,500 a month at the big tracks.

With regard to the race in question, I didn't see it and I'm too lazy to watch it right now. But in general, I agree with you. I am more of a proponent of fining the jock and giving him days rather than disqualifying the horse in most cases similar to this.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

$2k a month in training bills? It's more like $3.5k-$4k a month at the big tracks when you include the vet bills. Most guys charge $85-$90 a day. The top guys charge $105-$110 a day. At $90 a day, it costs you $2,700 a month not including the vet bill. The vet bill wil be at least $800 a month. So you're usually looking at a minimum of around $3,500 a month at the big tracks.

Jamie Ness is $50 a day - which comes out to $1,500 a month on day rate - and he's 3rd in the nation in wins behind Asmussen and Pletcher.

If you're spending 3.5 to 4K a month in training bills on a Maiden 20 claimer .. you're hopeless.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Jamie Ness is $50 a day - which comes out to $1,500 a month on day rate - and he's 3rd in the nation in wins behind Asmussen and Pletcher.

If you're spending 3.5 to 4K a month in training bills on a Maiden 20 claimer .. you're hopeless.

I agree with you that it's obviously not profitable to spend $90 a day on a $25k maiden claimer. But on the big circuits like Southern California and New York, you don't have a choice. There aren't any trainers that charge $50 a day. I think you are better off shipping somewhere else. In California, you can send a horse up to Northern California but even up there it's $65 a day. You are better off going to Philly Park or Delaware and spending $50 a day and running for bigger purses. There are trainers that charge $50 a day in New Mexico but the purses aren't as good in New Mexico as they are back east.

[johnny pinwheel]

the other thing that puzzled me other than the non take down...was the the double payoff after the next race. pelican lake paid 18.20 and sotique paid 25.60...yet the double came back 114 and change..somebody made a big double play on those two horses. i hope it was not the stewards.....lol

[the_fat_man]

Maybe they arranged for that horse to get a clear rail run around the track. Doesn't win otherwise.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

the other thing that puzzled me other than the non take down...was the the double payoff after the next race. pelican lake paid 18.20 and sotique paid 25.60...yet the double came back 114 and change..somebody made a big double play on those two horses. i hope it was not the stewards.....lol

wasn't PL like 5/2 m/l? the bigger question should be how in the hell did he go off at 8-1?

[Linny]

The race in question was in NY and you'd be hard pressed to find a trainer in NY getting only $50/day. If the horse that was hit was prevented from making her best placing, it changed the outcome for them, even if she was not going to WIN.