8/1 (MTH): Haskell (G1), Oceanport & Matchmaker (G3's)

[LARHAGE]

And despite that he still outrides Garcia. Gomez is riding a lot of longshots at the elite meet in the world, Garcia is competing in short fields on Baffert caddies, take away Baffert and Garcia
would be spreading mayo on wheat.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

And despite that he still outrides Garcia. Gomez is riding a lot of longshots at the elite meet in the world, Garcia is competing in short fields on Baffert caddies, take away Baffert and Garcia
would be spreading mayo on wheat.

Gomez may be a better rider at this stage of their careers, I will not argue that point. But in terms of the only thing that matters, results. Garcia has better results on Lookin at Lucky and has ridden him better than Gomez has, I think you would agree with this. If being a caddie was a forgone conclusion, Gomez would be riding Lookin At Lucky and for Baffert right now.

[cakes44]

Garcia has yet to ride him on synthetic. Those trips he gave him would be 0 for 2 on the stuff Gomez had to ride him on. And I don't care about the KD because Jesus would have lost from the 1-hole there, assuming he could ride horses like he rationed bread.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Garcia has yet to ride him on synthetic. Those trips he gave him would be 0 for 2 on the stuff Gomez had to ride him on. And I don't care about the KD because Jesus would have lost from the 1-hole there, assuming he could ride horses like he rationed bread.

Exactly, Garcia has done nothing for this horse that anyone else wouldn't, and a lot wouldn't have been as wide and premature. Garcia is an average jock, nothing more, nothing less.

[Travis Stone]

I think it's rare where a jockey really moves a horse up... certain horses sure, but for the most part, no shot. I don't think it's rare, however, for jockeys to move horses down. Lookin at Lucky was lengths the best on Sunday... he wins with a lot of different riders on him, but take nothing away from Garcia, because one thing he didn't do was screw-up.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I think it's rare where a jockey really moves a horse up...

Back when Cordero, Pincay, Antley, etc, were riding, I had many things to say during one of their races. 'PUT HIM IN A ****IN' DRIVE', was never one of them. Funny how this pretty much is the only thing I have to say while watching races these days. And, it doesn't really matter whether they're at major or minor venues, as the top jocks (with very, very few exceptions) don't finish any better than the poor ones. It is what it is.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Garcia has yet to ride him on synthetic. Those trips he gave him would be 0 for 2 on the stuff Gomez had to ride him on. And I don't care about the KD because Jesus would have lost from the 1-hole there, assuming he could ride horses like he rationed bread.

Why are you assuming he would ride a horse the same way on dirt as he would on synth? He's not Robbie Albarado, someone should have told him BC 2008 was on pro ride and not on dirt or atleast he should have noticed it was.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by CSC

Why are you assuming he would ride a horse the same way on dirt as he would on synth? He's not Robbie Albarado, someone should have told him BC 2008 was on pro ride and not on dirt or atleast he should have noticed it was.

Must've been the same person who also forgot to tell ASSman and Jackson.

But, Albarado is clearly CHALLENGED. Would telling him have helped?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Must've been the same person who also forgot to tell ASSman and Jackson.

But, Albarado is clearly CHALLENGED. Would telling him have helped?

It was a good ride if the race was on dirt.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

Why are you assuming he would ride a horse the same way on dirt as he would on synth?

Because he does. Go watch the brilliant ride he put on St. Trinians again. After breaking into the gate and stumbling - he takes her widest on both turns despite starting from post 2.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Because he does. Go watch the brilliant ride he put on St. Trinians again. After breaking into the gate and stumbling - he takes her widest on both turns despite starting from post 2.

I'm sure that cost her the race. Zenyatta goes into the 3 path around the turn, one less than St. Trinians, however I guess following a 60-1 Will O Way is preferable.

Edit I take that back Zenyatta took the exact path ST did around the 1st turn, if anyone wants to be anal about it, she steps in ST's hooveprints around the 1st turn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-fJpTGaPH8

Watch for yourselves, no disputing the tape.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Because he does. Go watch the brilliant ride he put on St. Trinians again. After breaking into the gate and stumbling - he takes her widest on both turns despite starting from post 2.

On my drive home, I really tried to understand what was so bad about Garcia's ride. Okay I'll play along, if he goes to the rail saves abit of ground around the 1st turn, she then follows Will O Way, Zardana around the track, waits for a split that may or may not occur or worst gets stopped following inferior horses...How is she going to outrun Zenyatta the last 1/8th of a mile if that magical split happens if she loses her tactical advantage? I know you referenced Awesome Gem's trip but that was against Rail Trip, not a horse that has yet to be beaten in the final 1/4 mile run of a race. Help me understand this instance of yours that Garcia's ride was dirt awful that it may have cost St. Trinians the race.

[cakes44]

Why do I get the feeling you'd defend the ride on St. Trinians ahead of some others?

[the_fat_man]

To get a sense of how badly Gomez is riding presently (and, IMO, since at least last year), consider the analogy of the defensive player (linebacker or defensive back), that, while pursuing the ball carrier, is constantly adjusting his equipment. You know, his shoulder pads, his jock, pulling up his socks, etc.

Then you get a sense of how frustrating it is to watch Gomez twirl the reigns repeatedly, rather than just TAKING A HOLD, and riding to the wire.

Garcia is certainly not at the top of my jock's list, and he certainly can't finish as well as Gomez; but at least he's able to get into a finishing position -- these days, Gomez can't even do that.

Gomez, at this point, is dangerously close to becoming Edgar Prado of a few years ago; you know, when Edgar started that accelerated DECLINE, that continues.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

To get a sense of how badly Gomez is riding presently (and, IMO, since at least last year), consider the analogy of the defensive player (linebacker or defensive back), that, while pursuing the ball carrier, is constantly adjusting his equipment. You know, his shoulder pads, his jock, pulling up his socks, etc.

Then you get a sense of how frustrating it is to watch Gomez twirl the reigns repeatedly, rather than just TAKING A HOLD, and riding to the wire.

Garcia is certainly not at the top of my jock's list, and he certainly can't finish as well as Gomez; but at least he's able to get into a finishing position -- these days, Gomez can't even do that.

Gomez, at this point, is dangerously close to becoming Edgar Prado of a few years ago; you know, when Edgar started that accelerated DECLINE, that continues.

Accelerated decline...made me think, Jorge Chavez used to be one of my favorite Jockies, especially when he used to ride for Bond. I remember some nice scores on him, he rode one of my few Derby winners Monarchos, yeah my derby picks sux, but Jorge is a case of a Jock that went south very quickly.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

Accelerated decline...made me think, Jorge Chavez used to be one of my favorite Jockies, especially when he used to ride for Bond. I remember some nice scores on him, he rode one of my few Derby winners Monarchos, yeah my derby picks sux, but Jorge is a case of a Jock that went south very quickly.

He had a huge injury in FL in 2003 and that certainly set him back horribly.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

He had a huge injury in FL in 2003 and that certainly set him back horribly.

NT

Yeah never was the same after that, same with Nakatani when he was injuried at Delmar. I can't think of 2 jockies whose quality rides dropped as much as Jorge and Nak.

[westcoastinvader]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

And despite that he still outrides Garcia. Gomez is riding a lot of longshots at the elite meet in the world, Garcia is competing in short fields on Baffert caddies, take away Baffert and Garcia
would be spreading mayo on wheat.

I'm not going to diss Gomez.

A couple years back one of my handicapping angles was that he would find a seam to get his horse through on the turn or in the stretch.

It was successful, at least as I recall with a nod to the adult beverages I might have consumed while placing the bets.

Plus, Gomez was hurt really bad in late 2008. Any jockey gets a bit of a performance pass from me at least, when that happens in this sport.

There are "five tool" baseball players.

Martin Garcia's skills are innate. No argument at all that he still has much to learn.

For those saying any jockey could have gotten Lucky home first in the Preakness and Haskell, I'll offer I remember VERY FEW Lookin at Lucky fans here in late 2009 and early 2010.

Sometimes we're all full of crap.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by westcoastinvader

Sometimes we're all full of crap.

You really said a mouthful there.

I remember back in 2007 when Gomez was tearing ass. I used to tip his valet $40 just to find out what Gomez had for breakfast that morning. If he had Eggs Benedict it would be a multiple win day. If he had cinnamon toast crunch it would usually be 1 win...depending on if there was a sliced banana in the bowl. If there was a slice banana in the bowl then there would be no wins.

I made a lot of money that year. Then he got hurt and I was like d'awww shucks.