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  #1  
Old 07-31-2010, 10:23 AM
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I doubt it. It's not like she's never lost before. Besides, she already has something Zenyatta never will attain: an Eclipse award for Horse of the Year.
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2010, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by slotdirt View Post
I doubt it. It's not like she's never lost before. Besides, she already has something Zenyatta never will attain: an Eclipse award for Horse of the Year.
Many of them already think that Zenyawner is the one of the greatest horses ever, so I doubt facts will get in the way of their "reality."
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2010, 01:59 PM
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Many of them already think that Zenyawner is the one of the greatest horses ever, so I doubt facts will get in the way of their "reality."
What if we're all actually wrong about Zenyatta and she's actually better than we think? That's what sucks about the way they're campaigning her.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that she was kept on the sidelines as a 2-year-old and for almost all of her 3-year-old season - while a filly her own age (Rags To Riches) won the Belmont over Curlin and Hard Spun and than got hurt before they could ever meet.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her trainer scratched her the morning of the race against favored Nashoba's Key because he felt she wasn't quite 100% from missing a few days of training weeks prior.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that Nashoba's Key died in a stall accident - which meant Zenyatta never took over her division in So. Cal - she merely inherited it from a dead horse who had obliterated everything she faced on synthetic and totally wiped out everything but the ducking Zenyatta within that division.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that the Breeders Cup was, for the first time in history, held two straight years at Santa Anita - on that terrible Pro-Ride junk - and that every Eastern dirt horse who went out there failed, most of them failed miserably.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her trainer scratched her out of a stakes race at Churchill the morning of the race because the track was wet.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her stablemate Life Is Sweet was offered up for the Hollywood Gold Cup and had to deal with Rail Trip when crushed on a speed-biased track - while she was safely at home in her stall.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her competition has mostly royally sucked.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that the Clement L. Hirsch and Ladies Secret are no longer Handicaps. Azeri had to give 19lbs away to an already Grade 1 stakes placed horse when she won the Hirsch. Azeri carried 12lbs more than multiple Grade 1 winner Elloluv and 10lbs more than Grade 1 winner and Breeders Cup Distaff 3rd Got Koko in the Ladies Secret when she finished a close 3rd to the two of them. Zenyatta was level weight in those former handicaps against an alw horse in Anabaa's Creations. She would have had to give Anabaa's Creation 25lbs in weight if those two races were still handicaps and she was treated as harshly by the racing secretary as Azeri was.


Shirreffs is on the easy path to the Breeders Cup and he will have this bitch cranked up to the moon for that race - and assuming he chooses the Classic over the Distaff (a no-brainer last year - doubtful this year) he's just going to hope she falls into a Breeders Cup win the same way his Giacomo fell into a Derby win against Afleet Alex and Bellamy Road. He's two more paid workouts away from a possible daring half court heave at history. I think God is on her side.
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS View Post
What if we're all actually wrong about Zenyatta and she's actually better than we think? That's what sucks about the way they're campaigning her.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that she was kept on the sidelines as a 2-year-old and for almost all of her 3-year-old season - while a filly her own age (Rags To Riches) won the Belmont over Curlin and Hard Spun and than got hurt before they could ever meet.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her trainer scratched her the morning of the race against favored Nashoba's Key because he felt she wasn't quite 100% from missing a few days of training weeks prior.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that Nashoba's Key died in a stall accident - which meant Zenyatta never took over her division in So. Cal - she merely inherited it from a dead horse who had obliterated everything she faced on synthetic and totally wiped out everything but the ducking Zenyatta within that division.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that the Breeders Cup was, for the first time in history, held two straight years at Santa Anita - on that terrible Pro-Ride junk - and that every Eastern dirt horse who went out there failed, most of them failed miserably.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her trainer scratched her out of a stakes race at Churchill the morning of the race because the track was wet.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her stablemate Life Is Sweet was offered up for the Hollywood Gold Cup and had to deal with Rail Trip when crushed on a speed-biased track - while she was safely at home in her stall.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her competition has mostly royally sucked.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that the Clement L. Hirsch and Ladies Secret are no longer Handicaps. Azeri had to give 19lbs away to an already Grade 1 stakes placed horse when she won the Hirsch. Azeri carried 12lbs more than multiple Grade 1 winner Elloluv and 10lbs more than Grade 1 winner and Breeders Cup Distaff 3rd Got Koko in the Ladies Secret when she finished a close 3rd to the two of them. Zenyatta was level weight in those former handicaps against an alw horse in Anabaa's Creations. She would have had to give Anabaa's Creation 25lbs in weight if those two races were still handicaps and she was treated as harshly by the racing secretary as Azeri was.


Shirreffs is on the easy path to the Breeders Cup and he will have this bitch cranked up to the moon for that race - and assuming he chooses the Classic over the Distaff (a no-brainer last year - doubtful this year) he's just going to hope she falls into a Breeders Cup win the same way his Giacomo fell into a Derby win against Afleet Alex and Bellamy Road. He's two more paid workouts away from a possible daring half court heave at history. I think God is on her side.
Great post DrugS... I had completely forgotten that Zenyatta is the same age as Rags; that's crazy.

It's also not Zenyatta's fault that her trainer sent his 3rd stringer to the Fair Grounds essentially shooting down any chance that RA would end up at Oaklawn.
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2010, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS View Post
What if we're all actually wrong about Zenyatta and she's actually better than we think? That's what sucks about the way they're campaigning her.

Shirreffs is on the easy path to the Breeders Cup and he will have this bitch cranked up to the moon for that race - and assuming he chooses the Classic over the Distaff (a no-brainer last year - doubtful this year) he's just going to hope she falls into a Breeders Cup win the same way his Giacomo fell into a Derby win against Afleet Alex and Bellamy Road. He's two more paid workouts away from a possible daring half court heave at history. I think God is on her side.
Do you think that she would be campaigned more aggressively this year if her unbeaten record wasn't at stake? Stakes like the Beverly D and the Jockey Club Gold Cup should be on her dancecard. Instead she faces overmatched rivals in the same boring stakes.

If she is still unbeaten by the time the BC rolls around, she won't run unless the conditions are optimal. It is unlikely that her connections will risk losing on American racing's second biggest stage when they have campaigned her to remain perfect.
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2010, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS View Post
What if we're all actually wrong about Zenyatta and she's actually better than we think? That's what sucks about the way they're campaigning her.
100% agree with this. At best, Z is going to end her career with one difficult dirt race.

Back to Rachel...I'm likely wrong to doubt that she will show up at the Ensign. Jess isn't dumb enough to issue a press release committing to the race and then backing out. However, it's a little hard for me to believe that they are willing to duel with Life at Ten for 10F when they can get a much easier race in the Molly Pitcher at Mth the same day. Jess has already proven he get whatever he wants for purse, conditions and date changes.
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  #7  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:54 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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they want to try rachel at 10f. perfect spot to do so.
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  #8  
Old 07-31-2010, 05:35 PM
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they want to try rachel at 10f. perfect spot to do so.
She will probably beat Rachel at 10 furlongs. Rachel isn't as good as she was last year and it would be a good time to catch her.
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  #9  
Old 07-31-2010, 07:07 PM
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they want to try rachel at 10f. perfect spot to do so.
Do have any idea how difficult it is shipping a horse to Saratoga? Let's give Team "girl power" some space. Zenyatta is prepping for her big day at CD, she isnt racing to challenge anything as she is already on Jon White all time great list!
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  #10  
Old 07-31-2010, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS View Post
What if we're all actually wrong about Zenyatta and she's actually better than we think? That's what sucks about the way they're campaigning her.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that she was kept on the sidelines as a 2-year-old and for almost all of her 3-year-old season - while a filly her own age (Rags To Riches) won the Belmont over Curlin and Hard Spun and than got hurt before they could ever meet.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her trainer scratched her the morning of the race against favored Nashoba's Key because he felt she wasn't quite 100% from missing a few days of training weeks prior.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that Nashoba's Key died in a stall accident - which meant Zenyatta never took over her division in So. Cal - she merely inherited it from a dead horse who had obliterated everything she faced on synthetic and totally wiped out everything but the ducking Zenyatta within that division.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that the Breeders Cup was, for the first time in history, held two straight years at Santa Anita - on that terrible Pro-Ride junk - and that every Eastern dirt horse who went out there failed, most of them failed miserably.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her trainer scratched her out of a stakes race at Churchill the morning of the race because the track was wet.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her stablemate Life Is Sweet was offered up for the Hollywood Gold Cup and had to deal with Rail Trip when crushed on a speed-biased track - while she was safely at home in her stall.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that her competition has mostly royally sucked.

It's not Zenyatta's fault that the Clement L. Hirsch and Ladies Secret are no longer Handicaps. Azeri had to give 19lbs away to an already Grade 1 stakes placed horse when she won the Hirsch. Azeri carried 12lbs more than multiple Grade 1 winner Elloluv and 10lbs more than Grade 1 winner and Breeders Cup Distaff 3rd Got Koko in the Ladies Secret when she finished a close 3rd to the two of them. Zenyatta was level weight in those former handicaps against an alw horse in Anabaa's Creations. She would have had to give Anabaa's Creation 25lbs in weight if those two races were still handicaps and she was treated as harshly by the racing secretary as Azeri was.


Shirreffs is on the easy path to the Breeders Cup and he will have this bitch cranked up to the moon for that race - and assuming he chooses the Classic over the Distaff (a no-brainer last year - doubtful this year) he's just going to hope she falls into a Breeders Cup win the same way his Giacomo fell into a Derby win against Afleet Alex and Bellamy Road. He's two more paid workouts away from a possible daring half court heave at history. I think God is on her side.
I hope you don't think it was the surface that did those easterners in -- more likely the competition. And now you offer up Azeri to back up your argument. I remember all the NYers panned Get Koko as that years' Anabaa's Creation. It may take you a few years, but eventually you'll admit greatness when it's far gone.
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  #11  
Old 07-31-2010, 09:51 PM
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I hope you don't think it was the surface that did those easterners in -- more likely the competition. And now you offer up Azeri to back up your argument. I remember all the NYers panned Get Koko as that years' Anabaa's Creation. It may take you a few years, but eventually you'll admit greatness when it's far gone.
Got Koko was that year's Anabaa's Creation?

You made this up, right?

Got Koko was the first filly (and only 3rd ever) to sweep the La Canada series in nearly 20 years. She won the Gr 1 7f La Brea, the Gr 2 8.5f El Encino, and the Gr 2 9f La Canada in succession. In the final leg, she defeated Sightseek, who was probably the only other contemperary mare that could hold a candle to Azeri.

Of course, this all took place before the Clement Hirsch that year and, of course, Got Koko came right back to beat Azeri in the Lady's Secret.
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Old 07-31-2010, 10:27 PM
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Pwned.
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Old 08-01-2010, 02:08 AM
copying copying is offline
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Originally Posted by RolloTomasi View Post
Got Koko was that year's Anabaa's Creation?

You made this up, right?

Got Koko was the first filly (and only 3rd ever) to sweep the La Canada series in nearly 20 years. She won the Gr 1 7f La Brea, the Gr 2 8.5f El Encino, and the Gr 2 9f La Canada in succession. In the final leg, she defeated Sightseek, who was probably the only other contemperary mare that could hold a candle to Azeri.

Of course, this all took place before the Clement Hirsch that year and, of course, Got Koko came right back to beat Azeri in the Lady's Secret.
I didn't say Got Koko was that years' AC -- All the easterners were saying that. They were saying Azeri was beating the same old overmatched allowance horses over and over again -- the same argument they now use against Zenyatta.
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  #14  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:11 AM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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I didn't say Got Koko was that years' AC -- All the easterners were saying that. They were saying Azeri was beating the same old overmatched allowance horses over and over again -- the same argument they now use against Zenyatta.

but....it's true.


keep reading from those with a zenyatta bias how she travelled to the ab to take on rachel as tho it was a brave act. john shirreffs is a smart man, and a savvy trainer. he hasn't enjoyed the successes he's achieved by being otherwise. what better time to take on a good horse than after a long layoff? shirreffs had every advantage going in, and he knew that. he had a horse that hadn't missed a beat, who hadn't had a tough season the previous year. everything was right for him, and wrong for rachel-it's so obvious.
the fact they haven't done anything different with the mare since, and won't, is also abundantly clear. she won't leave california. i'll be surprised at this point if she leaves before becoming a broodmare.

Last edited by Danzig : 08-01-2010 at 10:38 AM.
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  #15  
Old 07-31-2010, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by copying View Post
I hope you don't think it was the surface that did those easterners in -- more likely the competition. And now you offer up Azeri to back up your argument. I remember all the NYers panned Get Koko as that years' Anabaa's Creation. It may take you a few years, but eventually you'll admit greatness when it's far gone.
omg

Anyone can see some horses prefer dirt over synthetics, whether it's because they were trained on dirt their whole lives or because they were bred for dirt,

not every dirt horse will have the same form on synthetics!!!!

I live and have lived in California for 27 years (my entire life) and even I am not blind enough to ignore what synthetic tracks does to certain dirt horses.

Yes there are exceptions, just as there are horses who run the same on dirt and turf, but there are horses who don't such as Hystericalady.
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:34 AM
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i have no doubt at all now that zenyatta will run in the clement hirsch. just read this line from the article on drf about dakota phone's win:

There were several horses who won with wide rallies on Saturday, a rare day in the first two weeks of the meeting with ample sunshine.



i'd imagine shirreffs will find himself rather happy with how the del mar track is playing.
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  #17  
Old 07-31-2010, 01:53 PM
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I doubt it. It's not like she's never lost before. Besides, she already has something Zenyatta never will attain: an Eclipse award for Horse of the Year.
Isn't having your own theme song more impressive?
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