Brox chokin' again

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Give me a break. What about Jeff Nelson, Steve Karsay, Steve Bedrosian, Mike Perez, Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon, Tanyon Sturtze, etc.?
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?...26id%3d4272262

http://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.c...es/178976.html
This is a teriffic "breakdown" of the history of joe Torre ruining and abusing bullpens. And this was written before Scott Proctor.

Defending Torre where the bullpen is concerned is sheer folly

chuck , between '96 and '01 in key situations tell me where torre blew it

i just don't get it , the bullpen was the reason why they won from 96 - 01

the starting pitching while very good were matched by other teams , it was all about the bullpen and not just rivera that the yanks won those 4 titles

as the starting pitching got worse later on in the torre years , yeah the bullpen got worse

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by gales0678

chuck , between '96 and '01 in key situations tell me where torre blew it

i just don't get it , the bullpen was the reason why they won from 96 - 01

the starting pitching while very good were matched by other teams , it was all about the bullpen and not just rivera that the yanks won those 4 titles

as the starting pitching got worse later on in the torre years , yeah the bullpen got worse

marty the guy has a 25 year track record of blowing up pitchers. Wettleand didnt blow up because he left NY was soon out of baseball. Lloyd was never effective after leaving NY. Mendoza was never any good, Nelson had 2 years of torre abuse then had 2 years of arm trouble. Mariano is about the only guy to ever survive multiple years of Torre but that guy is simply on another level, hence my comment about the how amazing it was he survived.

You are just missing the point. It isnt that the bullpens didnt perform in the short term (seriously how can a pen with Rivera as a setup guy go too wrong) but but that he consistently blows out guys by overusing them. Take Proctor for instance. In back to back years he pitched 83 games. That's half of a teams games(166 out of 324)! Basically he pitched every other game. Plus he warmed up for every appearance and most likely also warmed up on other occasions where he did not actually come into the games. Read the links. This is hardly even debatable as the evidence is overwhelming. He was doing it prior to managing the Yankees and is still doing it now. He is doing it with Broxton (last week Broxton threw more pitches than the starters), he is doing it with Troncoso (82 innings last year after 38 the prior year and his era has gone from 2.72 to 5.45 this year) and he is doing it with belisario who has also regressed after being ridden too hard last year. I know that he has 2 guys in the pen that are handled with kid gloves (Sherill and Kuo-who also broke down again after too many innings in 2008) but his pattern has been the same since he was in St Louis before he was considered a good manager. He is a very good manager who handles the starters well but like everyone else he has weaknesses and the bullpen is his. If after reading the links and seeing how he handled Broxton last week you still disagree then there probably isnt much I can do to convince you outside of someones arm falling off like Zumaya's did the other day.

[MaTH716]

He really did some nunber on Quantrill as well.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Of course people that are fans of other teams are gunna say Brox is great. They know, if they ever really need to win a pressure game, they can get it off him. Any objective person would have to note that the guy is useless in big games. The only exception is during the divisional series (when the Dodgers were big underdogs.)

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

To hell he ain't. You got a tumor or something? He's single-handedly lost the pivotal game 4 in the NLCS 2 years in a row (not once.) He just blew a game that they had a 4 run lead in. Yankee Fans infested Dodger Stadium. That was a playoff atmosphere that night. We all know it, but only a few will admit it. He blew that game because it was intense. He's a weak person. I'll go to the post with Valverde. I doubt he had the run support that Broxton has pssd away. I certainly do know what's gunna happen if we rely on Brox to close in the post. You don't have to be brilliant to figure that out. Come on, would you really be sticking up for this choking cow if it wasn't me who despises him? We are gunna bet on this. If the Dodgers make it to the post(big if,) then we'll vote on this fatboy's performance in the post. If you really believe this stuff, back it up. I would of won this bet the last 2 years, but you've again tried to couch together some angle. I recognize that scared bitch I saw on Sunday Night. She ain't changed her insides.

You're saying he chokes under pressure, but YOU wrote an exception. So even by your admission he has handled the pressure. WTF?

Cannon's blog posting is spot on!!!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

You're saying he chokes under pressure, but YOU wrote an exception. So even by your admission he has handled the pressure. WTF?

Cannon's blog posting is spot on!!!

We all know she chokes under pressure. She choked away the NLCS on 72 hours rest last year. Dodgers won both their Divisional series 3 games to nil. That gave her plenty of rest between series. In 2008, she had 8 days off before pitching 14 pitches in game 3 of the NLCS. The next night, she blew game 4. She is a choker. This is not fatigue. I would love to blame it on that, but I know this bitch will choke big games away regardless of whether she's been pitching a little, or a lot. The reason I don't complain about these other pitchers is because they don't have her ability. I know these are choke jobs. She has the talent to be almost as successful as Rivera, but she pisses it away, and she's an embarassment to her maker. She's an embarassment to the city. If you want to make the case for fatigue as the cause, then you have to be consistent, and explain why she choked on 72 hours rest in last years NLCS. She had 5 days off between series. We know exactly what she's capable of, and that's why were so upset at the bitch. Either way, they needed better relievers the last 2 years, and haven't addressed their sht (at all.) That really is the most important thing. This fkn Leprechaun owner spends way too much time thinking about sht that doesn't help them get a ring.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

We all know she chokes under pressure. She choked away the NLCS on 72 hours rest last year. Dodgers won both their Divisional series 3 games to nil. That gave her plenty of rest between series. In 2008, she had 8 days off before pitching 14 pitches in game 3 of the NLCS. The next night, she blew game 4. She is a choker. This is not fatigue. I would love to blame it on that, but I know this bitch will choke big games away regardless of whether she's been pitching a little, or a lot. The reason I don't complain about these other pitchers is because they don't have her ability. I know these are choke jobs. She has the talent to be almost as successful as Rivera, but she pisses it away, and she's an embarassment to her maker. She's an embarassment to the city. If you want to make the case for fatigue as the cause, then you have to be consistent, and explain why she choked on 72 hours rest in last years NLCS. She had 5 days off between series. We know exactly what she's capable of, and that's why were so upset at the bitch. Either way, they needed better relievers the last 2 years, and haven't addressed their sht (at all.) That really is the most important thing. This fkn Leprechaun owner spends way too much time thinking about sht that doesn't help them get a ring.

Yeah I guess when Rivera "choked" in the 2001 WS he never lived it down. Killed his career.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah I guess when Rivera "choked" in the 2001 WS he never lived it down. Killed his career.

That was 1 time, and a lil blooper. It's one of the most admired at bats in World Series History. That batter's number is the 1st to be retired by the D'BACKS. Brox has been destroyed 2X by Philly in the post. Both times, it was on a horrible mistake that any High School player could of done damage with. He was absolutely ass kicked back into the dugout. It doesn't fit your theory. So, you need to bring others' failures in to try to lessen his fully-rested chokin'. If it was fatigue, I'd be the 1st to use that excuse. Don't you think I'd like to think they have some shot to close games in any future NLCS / WORLD SERIES efforts? They don't. They have no shot. They're in fkn denial. I know this pig's ways. She gets scared. Doesn't deal with it properly, and gets owned. She has plenty of talent, and can easily blow these people away. She's a mental failure of monumental proportions. For years to come, she will be the topic of many a Sports Psychology Book Chapters. You've been wrong about her in the post for the last 2 years, and may get a chance for a hat trick. I admit that her talent makes it easy to mistakenly look for excuses (Dodger brain thrust has gotten owned while making the same mistake,) but she's simply a scared bitch. It's not a difficult situation to figure out, it's simply a conclusion that people don't like. I don't like it. It's just the way it is with her. They would need like 5 of Ron Artest's Shrinks to even have a shot at changing her. For years now, the late action on her pitches has been tied to how scared she is (not how fatigued she is, or isn't.) This is so obvious to people that watch her day in /day out. We know what she can do. She's not doing it. She's scared.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

http://soundcloud.com/scuds/tracks

I'm tired of that "I Love L.A." song. No wonder this woman chokes. I'll donate this example.
Bank Robbery photo is all ya getting.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

That was 1 time, and a lil blooper. It's one of the most admired at bats in World Series History. That batter's number is the 1st to be retired by the D'BACKS. Brox has been destroyed 2X by Philly in the post. Both times, it was on a horrible mistake that any High School player could of done damage with. He was absolutely ass kicked back into the dugout. It doesn't fit your theory. So, you need to bring others' failures in to try to lessen his fully-rested chokin'. If it was fatigue, I'd be the 1st to use that excuse. Don't you think I'd like to think they have some shot to close games in any future NLCS / WORLD SERIES efforts? They don't. They have no shot. They're in fkn denial. I know this pig's ways. She gets scared. Doesn't deal with it properly, and gets owned. She has plenty of talent, and can easily blow these people away. She's a mental failure of monumental proportions. For years to come, she will be the topic of many a Sports Psychology Book Chapters. You've been wrong about her in the post for the last 2 years, and may get a chance for a hat trick. I admit that her talent makes it easy to mistakenly look for excuses (Dodger brain thrust has gotten owned while making the same mistake,) but she's simply a scared bitch. It's not a difficult situation to figure out, it's simply a conclusion that people don't like. I don't like it. It's just the way it is with her. They would need like 5 of Ron Artest's Shrinks to even have a shot at changing her. For years now, the late action on her pitches has been directly proportional to how scared she is (not how fatigued she is, or isn't.) This is so obvious to people that watch her day in /day out. We know what she can do. She's not doing it. She's scared.

I haven't really watched her pitch. Is she anything like Tom Neidenfuer? Tom Neidenfuer wasn't a bad pitcher but she always blew the big games.