Fair Taxation

[Honu]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Welcome to Europe...seriously...no income tax? I like that idea too, but probably not realistic

Yeah prolly not but it is my opinon that the founding fathers didnt really envision the kind of taxes we pay out of our paychecks as the kind of tax that they were reffering to when they said it was ok to collect income tax.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Honu

Yeah prolly not but it is my opinon that the founding fathers didnt really envision the kind of taxes we pay out of our paychecks as the kind of tax that they were reffering to when they said it was ok to collect income tax.

And I doubt they thought that a well armed militia meant that my neighbor could own an AK 47, but I digress.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by GBBob

And I doubt they thought that a well armed militia meant that my neighbor could own an AK 47, but I digress.

regular joe's should not be able to own assault / (semi) automatic rifles. It just doesnt make sense.

Regular shot guns / hand guns, is fine. (for hunting and protection)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

regular joe's should not be able to own assault / (semi) automatic rifles. It just doesnt make sense.Regular shot guns / hand guns, is fine. (for hunting and protection)

why? and when most people say that, they are thinking of ak-47's and the like( and i can certainly understand the reasoning, however many just are gun collectors and enthusiasts)...when in fact, the term semi-automatic covers a variety of guns, including a shotgun i own, as well as a hundred year old .25 colt that we inherited.
now, i firmly believe if you're on the no fly list for planes, you should be excluded from purchasing guns. if you're a felon, insane, have an order of protection against you, etc, you should be excluded. but for cities or towns to tell the average, law abiding citizen that they can't own a weapon imo is unconstitutional, and does nothing to limit gun crime. after all, those of us who follow the law aren't the problem! the simple act of owning a gun doesn't mean someone has a criminal mind, or has criminal intent.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

why? and when most people say that, they are thinking of ak-47's and the like( and i can certainly understand the reasoning, however many just are gun collectors and enthusiasts)...when in fact, the term semi-automatic covers a variety of guns, including a shotgun i own, as well as a hundred year old .25 colt that we inherited.
now, i firmly believe if you're on the no fly list for planes, you should be excluded from purchasing guns. if you're a felon, insane, have an order of protection against you, etc, you should be excluded. but for cities or towns to tell the average, law abiding citizen that they can't own a weapon imo is unconstitutional, and does nothing to limit gun crime. after all, those of us who follow the law aren't the problem! the simple act of owning a gun doesn't mean someone has a criminal mind, or has criminal intent.

maybe I should have dropped the semi - as you said there are different types of guns out there that would fall under the semi part. (though I still dont believe they are necessary.. I do understand the "collectors item" part)

I dont understand why anyone would want a gun that could kill hundreds in minutes. Or guns that are used for wars. Nobody needs an ak 47 or an automatic rifle.

Even semi-automatic handguns, like the ones used by the Virginia Tech killer (so he could kill lots in a short amount of time) are not necessary for people to own. the only real point of them are violence.

they do much more harm than good.. and yes I know people kill people, not guns... but a dangerous person with an ak 47 is much more harmful to us citizens..

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

regular joe's should not be able to own assault / (semi) automatic rifles. It just doesnt make sense.

Regular shot guns / hand guns, is fine. (for hunting and protection)

I'd come at it from a different angle:

I wouldn't limit the type of firearm, but I would limit the ammunition. You don't have to worry about a guy with a fully automatic weapon when he only has 100 rounds. That wouldn't last 3 seconds.

Here's an off-the-cuff idea: You can buy as much ammo as you want when you're at the range to practice with. The range owners have to give you credit for any unspent shells when you leave. So you can go and practice all day so long as you can afford it. By the way, it benefits everyone to have those who exercise their second amendment rights to be as skilled as possible (less gun accidents).

But you can limit the number of boxes of ammo people buy for use outside the range. More during hunting season, less in the off season. The legitimate home defense people won't care as long as the ammo will still work (they do have a shelf life), because in the overwhelming majority of the time, the ammunition they have purchased has gone unused.

Again, it's only the nightmare inducing "gun nut" who needs several thousand rounds of ammunition on a continuous feed for a fully automatic machine gun. Couldn't carry it very far -- too heavy -- it would have to be on his roof or something.

[Danzig]

gun ownership has risen over the last few years, especially since the terrorist attacks...yet crime has gone down, not up. food for thought. besides, the bad guys aren't as keen to forcibly enter a home if they are more concerned that harry homeowner has a means of defense.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I'd come at it from a different angle:

I wouldn't limit the type of firearm, but I would limit the ammunition. You don't have to worry about a guy with a fully automatic weapon when he only has 100 rounds. That wouldn't last 3 seconds.

Here's an off-the-cuff idea: You can buy as much ammo as you want when you're at the range to practice with. The range owners have to give you credit for any unspent shells when you leave. So you can go and practice all day so long as you can afford it. By the way, it benefits everyone to have those who exercise their second amendment rights to be as skilled as possible (less gun accidents).

But you can limit the number of boxes of ammo people buy for use outside the range. More during hunting season, less in the off season. The legitimate home defense people won't care as long as the ammo will still work (they do have a shelf life), because in the overwhelming majority of the time, the ammunition they have purchased has gone unused.

Again, it's only the nightmare inducing "gun nut" who needs several thousand rounds of ammunition on a continuous feed for a fully automatic machine gun. Couldn't carry it very far -- too heavy -- it would have to be on his roof or something.

hollow point bullets should be banned. I'd feel more comfortable if the only assault rifles in this country were located on military bases.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

regular joe's should not be able to own assault / (semi) automatic rifles. It just doesnt make sense.

yes we should...crime is lower when you have the ability to defend your house.. as for handguns..eh the whole ban thing isnt working out in chi very well..10 shootings a week or so.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

regular joe's should not be able to own assault / (semi) automatic rifles. It just doesnt make sense.

yes we should...crime is lower when you have the ability to defend your house.. as for handguns..eh the whole ban thing isnt working out in chi very well..10 shootings a week or so.

why do you need an AK 47 to protect your house? who would need that except people caught up in some serious crimes?

I think handguns and shotguns are plenty of protection. As is mase, a taser and a big dog!

[Thunder Gulch]

I've always been somewhat conflicted by gun regulations. As a lifelong sportsman/hunter, semi-auto shotguns and rifles are nothing unusual for me. Most firearms are in fact semi-auto, and I've hunted with them since I was 8 years old. I have a dozen guns now, but I've never bought one with the idea of home protection (I don't own any handguns).

As a gun owner, however, I don't see any use or even any appeal for fully automatic or "assault" rifles. The nuts argue that if you let them take those away, they'll come after my hunting rifles next. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't buy that argument.

Limits on ammo don't work for me either. We do a lot of trap/skeet/target shooting on the farm as opposed to a controlled range. I'm not talking about thousands of assault rounds, but it's nothing to go through a couple of cases of shotgun shells through the course of a year that includes recreational and hunting outings.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Honu

Yeah prolly not but it is my opinon that the founding fathers didnt really envision the kind of taxes we pay out of our paychecks as the kind of tax that they were reffering to when they said it was ok to collect income tax.

Wages earned were not taxed, period, until we had the Federal Reserve, a non government entity, shoved down our throats.

That's the day the shackles were thrown on us.