Arizona taking away constitutional rights?

[Danzig]

i thought the new law in az was to allow, or encourage, a policeman who suspects illegality, in this case immigration violations, to further investigate? seems like it would be just one more thing to check into-after all, no doubt your local sheriff is supposed to turn you in if the feds want you for other crimes, kidnapping for instance. why is it that local and regional police forces can handle a variety of crimes, but immigration violations are off limits? is this really that difficult a crime to investigate? what makes it so special? feds want you, they turn you over...u.s. marshals, same thing. state wants you, the locals hold you til the state comes and gets you....so what's the big deal about this?

[Riot]

is this really that difficult a crime to investigate? what makes it so special? feds want you, they turn you over...u.s. marshals, same thing. state wants you, the locals hold you til the state comes and gets you....so what's the big deal about this?

All law enforcement agencies are not the same, nor do they have the same jurisdiction and powers. I don't want my local sheriff investigating me for income tax evasion - do you?

Turning someone over to a different jurisdiction when there is a want/warrant already out for their arrest is NOT the same thing as initiating an investigation into a possible violation of federal law by a local law enforcement agency who does not hold federal jurisdiction.

Currently, if a local cop suspects you of violating federal law, they contact the appropriate federal agency: US Marshal, FBI, etc. They do not do any investigation or arrests on that level independently.

Seriously - I find it simply terrifying that any local yahoo sheriff, any cop on the street in Chicago, or a one-horse town in Nebraska, etc could independently - without contacting the currently appropriate authority - initiate a federal investigation into a violation of federal law. RICO, federal income tax, etc. Talk about Big Brother, big government, loss of personal rights and freedoms!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

All law enforcement agencies are not the same, nor do they have the same jurisdiction and powers. I don't want my local sheriff investigating me for income tax evasion - do you?

Turning someone over to a different jurisdiction when there is a want/warrant already out for their arrest is NOT the same thing as initiating an investigation into a possible violation of federal law by a local law enforcement agency who does not hold federal jurisdiction.

Currently, if a local cop suspects you of violating federal law, they contact the appropriate federal agency: US Marshal, FBI, etc. They do not do any investigation or arrests on that level independently.

Seriously - I find it simply terrifying that any local yahoo sheriff, any cop on the street in Chicago, or a one-horse town in Nebraska, etc could independently - without contacting the currently appropriate authority - initiate a federal investigation into a violation of federal law. RICO, federal income tax, etc. Talk about Big Brother, big government, loss of personal rights and freedoms!

this is untrue. if someone is stopped, they're found to be wanted, they're arrested and then turned over.

and i'm sorry, i'm not terrified at the thought of a sheriff, deputy, or other trained law enforcement officer with probable cause investigating a suspect. rico, federal income tax? lol when the irs starts issuing warrants because you evaded taxes, i'd imagine they'd appreciate the local law enforcement officer picking up anyone with an iou. you might not find this is a big deal, but for az, it is. they are stranded out there on the mexico border, and are dealing with this issue on a daily basis, and aren't getting any help from the feds, who are supposed to be taking care of this problem. but they aren't, so az is caught between a rock and a hard place.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

this is untrue. if someone is stopped, they're found to be wanted, they're arrested and then turned over.

You misunderstood what I said, which is true. You are blending two separate things together. Yes, if a want or warrant already exists, the appropriate federal (or other state, etc) department is contacted, and an arrest can be made by a local agency. But that warrant already exists - it was issued under the different department, or by the feds.

But a state or local agency does not initiate federal investigations on their own - they do not have the jurisdiction.

And yes, I would be very concerned about our federal government extending their reach and influence down into the local police department.

[Honu]

In Arizona per the new law it would be a state investigation now, the Feds can just hide and watch.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

You misunderstood what I said, which is true. You are blending two separate things together. Yes, if a want or warrant already exists, the appropriate federal (or other state, etc) department is contacted, and an arrest can be made by a local agency. But that warrant already exists - it was issued under the different department, or by the feds.

But a state or local agency does not initiate federal investigations on their own - they do not have the jurisdiction.

And yes, I would be very concerned about our federal government extending their reach and influence down into the local police department.

again, this isn't necessarily true. counterfeiting currency (for example) is a federal felony, with the secret service holding jurisdiction. yet local, regional, and state police arrest people, investigate people, all the time on this charge.

'Counterfeiting money is a federal felony. Unlike other federal crimes, the Secret Service is in charge of investigating counterfeiting cases ...'


http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...nterfeit+money

and then there's this:

http://www.freelawanswer.com/law/1191-2-law-4.html


We often initiate federal crime investigations and often do the entire investigation. The results of our investation are submitted to the District Attorney. The District Attorney consults with the U.S. attorney's office and the 2 attorneys' offices determine whether the crime will be prosecuted in state or federal court.


Local police investigate crimes based on either complaints from citizens or their own observations. Prosecutors decide whether the evidence presented by the police is best handled under state or federal law. If a local prosecutor or police department finds evidence that suggests a federal violation, they ordinarily will contact the office of the U.S. Attorney in their district, and the U.S. Attorney will coordinate the response, and ultimately decide whether the prosecution should be state or federal, or whether additional investigation is required.

If there is additional investigation required and the crime is apparently federal, most often the U.S. Attorney will request that the local FBI office get involved

[Riot]

again, this isn't necessarily true. counterfeiting currency (for example) is a federal felony, with the secret service holding jurisdiction. yet local, regional, and state police arrest people, investigate people, all the time on this charge.

Under the jurisdiction of the Secret Service. As you point out:

'Counterfeiting money is a federal felony. Unlike other federal crimes, the Secret Service is in charge of investigating counterfeiting cases ...

If there is additional investigation required and the crime is apparently federal, most often the U.S. Attorney will request that the local FBI office get involved

The point is: who is in charge of American citizenship, naturalization, etc? The Feds.

Not the Lexington Police Department.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Under the jurisdiction of the Secret Service. As you point out:



The point is: who is in charge of American citizenship, naturalization, etc? The Feds.

Not the Lexington Police Department.

the fact is, local and state police investigate crimes of all types, including federal crimes. you're ignoring the fact that local, regional, city and state police investigate crimes of every persuasion, including federal crimes. why should immunity be sacrosanct? it shouldn't. however, the feds have already said they'll ignore anyone that az refers to them-which i find laughable. they're supposed to take care of immigration, but they say they won't-and they wonder why az felt the need to pass this law?!