Royal Ascot:Queen Anne Stakes

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by smuthg

I felt she was much the best horse at the 2008 Breeders' Cup and probably 1(a) last year... I don't have the depth of racing knowledge as many, but, who is the last turf miler that is even in her class?

I'm tempted to say Rock of Gibraltar, but he couldn't win one BC race, let alone two (likely three). Goldy may well be the best since Miesque.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'm tempted to say Rock of Gibraltar, but he couldn't win one BC race, let alone two (likely three). Goldy may well be the best since Miesque.

Lure is who I'd say.

Since the early part of the decade the milers haven't really been all that great. I loved Artie Schiller, but he's not in Goldikova's class at all.

NT

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'm tempted to say Rock of Gibraltar, but he couldn't win one BC race, let alone two (likely three). Goldy may well be the best since Miesque.

To be fair rock of Gibraltar probably lost because he was checked behind a horse breaking down at the top of the stretch.

[blackthroatedwind]

First of all, there simply aren't that many opportunities for her in Europe, especially at a mile, against her sex.

Second of all, while she is clearly terrific, she also beat Kip Deville in one BC, and Courageous Cat and Justenufhumor in the other. If I'm not mistaken, Miesque absolutely drowned Steinlen in her second BC Mile win...and Lure's first BC Mile was amazing.

She is an extraordinarily good horse. But perhaps a little perspective?

[Danzig]

Andy, they said best since miesque. Doesn't mean as good as that one. But I won't argue she's a good one at all, probably the best horse in training this year. I look forward to her threepeat attempt.
And lure was a good one, underrated by many imo.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Andy, they said best since miesque. Doesn't mean as good as that one. But I won't argue she's a good one at all, probably the best horse in training this year. I look forward to her threepeat attempt.
And lure was a good one, underrated by many imo.

At one mile on the turf she is probably the best horse in training. From 7F to 1 1/8 on dirt Quality Road is the best probably followed by Rachel Alexandra. On synth, at over a mile, it's probably Zenyatta and Rail Trip. Who the " best " of those is total conjecture. They all have somewhat specific talents.

Zarkava drowned her at one mile.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

At one mile on the turf she is probably the best horse in training. From 7F to 1 1/8 on dirt Quality Road is the best probably followed by Rachel Alexandra. On synth, at over a mile, it's probably Zenyatta and Rail Trip. Who the " best " of those is total conjecture. They all have somewhat specific talents.

Zarkava drowned her at one mile.

Zarkava and Meisque could be mentioned in the same breath IMO. Both Beasts. To bad Zarkava isnt still racing!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

At one mile on the turf she is probably the best horse in training. From 7F to 1 1/8 on dirt Quality Road is the best probably followed by Rachel Alexandra. On synth, at over a mile, it's probably Zenyatta and Rail Trip. Who the " best " of those is total conjecture. They all have somewhat specific talents.

Zarkava drowned her at one mile.

can't argue with any of that.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

First of all, there simply aren't that many opportunities for her in Europe, especially at a mile, against her sex.

Second of all, while she is clearly terrific, she also beat Kip Deville in one BC, and Courageous Cat and Justenufhumor in the other. If I'm not mistaken, Miesque absolutely drowned Steinlen in her second BC Mile win...and Lure's first BC Mile was amazing.

She is an extraordinarily good horse. But perhaps a little perspective?

I agree with you, especially with regards to the 2008 running where the American horses were terrible. Last year's field was a lot better and Courageous Cat did run his eyeballs out. Zacinto and the Godolphin horse who had won on World Cup night were both solid horses from Europe and the American contingent was far from terrible.

Now, the 2009 field was nowhere near the quality of some of the fields Da Hoss or Lure beat, let alone Miesque.

NT

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I agree with you, especially with regards to the 2008 running where the American horses were terrible. Last year's field was a lot better and Courageous Cat did run his eyeballs out. Zacinto and the Godolphin horse who had won on World Cup night were both solid horses from Europe and the American contingent was far from terrible.

Now, the 2009 field was nowhere near the quality of some of the fields Da Hoss or Lure beat, let alone Miesque.

NT

Zacinto basically bolted and was last in his return this year. He ran a respectable 4th today however. The Godolphin horse was ridiculous. How the hell he won on World Cup Day will remain an eternal mystery.

The whole thing is one of the problems with these internet discussions. People either lack perspective or lose all sense of it. Great horses of the past get routinely dismissed or forgotten whenever the latest horse du jour appears.

[cakes44]

How much better is Goldikova than Starcraft or possibly even GW when he was 3?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by cakes44

How much better is Goldikova than even Starcraft or possibly even GW when he was 3?

I can't judge Euros fairly. But, it does seem, at least at 3, that Zarkava was clearly superior. Now, Zarkava was clearly something special, but still.

It seems the Euros have joined the Rachel/Zenyatta fray by announcing Goldikova is he best mare in the world. I can only imagine what their message boards look like. Sounds like a Sartrean hell to me.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The whole thing is one of the problems with these internet discussions. People either lack perspective or lose all sense of it. Great horses of the past get routinely dismissed or forgotten whenever the latest horse du jour appears.

Very good point, but it is equally unfair to paint all of the current horses with the same brush, that they aren't as "good" as horses of yesterday, just because they are running today. It is hardly a disservice to Lure and Miesque to say that Goldikova is the best turf miler since Lure or Miesque. I don't recall it being sacrilegious to compare Rachel to Go For Wand and Ruffian last year, and I don’t think that takes anything away from those wonderful fillies.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by smuthg

Very good point, but it is equally unfair to paint all of the current horses with the same brush, that they aren't as "good" as horses of yesterday, just because they are running today. It is hardly a disservice to Lure and Miesque to say that Goldikova is the best turf miler since Lure or Miesque. I don't recall it being sacrilegious to compare Rachel to Go For Wand and Ruffian last year, and I don’t think that takes anything away from those wonderful fillies.

Fair enough.

One thing that is clearly amazing about Goldikova is how long she has held her great form. She might even be better this year than last year. She got drowned last year in the prep she won this year at 1 1/8 plus.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

To be fair rock of Gibraltar probably lost because he was checked behind a horse breaking down at the top of the stretch.

Dansili, is probably the most unlucky miler that should have won a BC race, pre BC watered down version. He was by far the best horse in that race that War Chant won.