Fleur de Lis and Foster online?

dean smith · #1 06-13-2010, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I disagree that the Classic would assure her anything if they keep going the safe route. If QR wins the Donn, Met Mile, Whitney and Woodward, that would probably beat (essentially) just a BCC win.

So, a 20-20 lifetime record and a head-to-head win vs. QR in the BCC (especially if the field includes RA...) would not be enough to win Zenyatta HOY? A second BCC in a row, btw.

Respectfully, you are high.

Unless the anti-West Coast bias is stronger than I thought.

slotdirt · #2 06-13-2010, 07:36 PM

I would suggest that anybody who thinks Zenyatta's really going to cross those dreaded Rockies again is the one who is smoking something off.

kgar311 · #3 06-13-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I would suggest that anybody who thinks Zenyatta's really going to cross those dreaded Rockies again is the one who is smoking something off.

I was thinking the same thing earlier. Im willing to bet she wont even run in the Classic this year

dean smith · #4 06-13-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I would suggest that anybody who thinks Zenyatta's really going to cross those dreaded Rockies again is the one who is smoking something off.

For the record, I'm more of a Rachel-guy than a Zenyatta-guy. But the last two times Zenyatta's camp has said, "here we are, come get us" (BC and Apple Blossom), Team Rachel has done the ducking.

"We don't run on synthetics" and "we're not fit enough right now." WTF?

Cannon Shell · #5 06-13-2010, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean smith

For the record, I'm more of a Rachel-guy than a Zenyatta-guy. But the last two times Zenyatta's camp has said, "here we are, come get us" (BC and Apple Blossom), Team Rachel has done the ducking.

"We don't run on synthetics" and "we're not fit enough right now." WTF?

There is an equal amount of blame to be assigned.

ateamstupid · #6 06-13-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean smith

So, a 20-20 lifetime record and a head-to-head win vs. QR in the BCC (especially if the field includes RA...) would not be enough to win Zenyatta HOY? A second BCC in a row, btw.

Respectfully, you are high.

Unless the anti-West Coast bias is stronger than I thought.

Is it Horse of the Life or Horse of the Year? Your assumption that she'd be home free is based on the idea that the voters will treat it as a lifetime achievement award. That's made up. She was 14-for-14 after the Classic last year and she still didn't get it.

dean smith · #7 06-13-2010, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Is it Horse of the Life or Horse of the Year? Your assumption that she'd be home free is based on the idea that the voters will treat it as a lifetime achievement award. That's made up. She was 14-for-14 after the Classic last year and she still didn't get it.

I hear you, but would the voters really take a third straight undefeated season and the biggest non-TC race of the year win against the other contenders and deny her again?

Cannon Shell · #8 06-13-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean smith

I hear you, but would the voters really take a third straight undefeated season and the biggest non-TC race of the year win against the other contenders and deny her again?

A filly that races 5 times, 4 against fillies and once against colts doesnt really have much of a case unless there is absolutely noone else to vote for.

dean smith · #9 06-13-2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

A filly that races 5 times, 4 against fillies and once against colts doesnt really have much of a case unless there is absolutely noone else to vote for.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you guys. HOY probably should be based on 2010 alone. That being said, should Zenyatta take her second straight BCC on dirt over the other big guns, thus completely validating her unblemished record, would it? Absolutely not. C'mon. You boys watch and follow other sports, right? Players of the Year and MVPs are given for lifetime achievement all the time. Karl Malone got one. Charles Barkley got one. Barry Larkin got one...

I think as bad a rap as sportswriters get, they do like to recognize greatness when it's all said and done. No one is going to want to explain how a 20-20 mare with two BCC wins never won HOY for the rest of their lives.

(Do turf writers even vote for HOY? If not, who does? I honestly don't know.)

Cannon Shell · #10 06-13-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean smith

I'm not totally disagreeing with you guys. HOY probably should be based on 2010 alone. That being said, should Zenyatta take her second straight BCC on dirt over the other big guns, thus completely validating her unblemished record, would it? Absolutely not. C'mon. You boys watch and follow other sports, right? Players of the Year and MVPs are given for lifetime achievement all the time. Karl Malone got one. Charles Barkley got one. Barry Larkin got one...

I think as bad a rap as sportswriters get, they do like to recognize greatness when it's all said and done. No one is going to want to explain how a 20-20 mare with two BCC wins never won HOY for the rest of their lives.

(Do turf writers even vote for HOY? If not, who does? I honestly don't know.)

Amazingly enough there are over 200 people who get horse of the year votes and at least 15 of them actually watch races on a regular basis.

slotdirt · #11 06-13-2010, 08:15 PM

I'm not assigning blame (no pun intended) or anything like that, I just don't see Zenyatta ever running on dirt again. Given where her schedule is right now, and the 20 win mark being an obvious goal, I don't see why they would come East for the rest of the year.

Danzig · #12 06-13-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean smith

I'm not totally disagreeing with you guys. HOY probably should be based on 2010 alone. That being said, should Zenyatta take her second straight BCC on dirt over the other big guns, thus completely validating her unblemished record, would it? Absolutely not. C'mon. You boys watch and follow other sports, right? Players of the Year and MVPs are given for lifetime achievement all the time. Karl Malone got one. Charles Barkley got one. Barry Larkin got one...

I think as bad a rap as sportswriters get, they do like to recognize greatness when it's all said and done. No one is going to want to explain how a 20-20 mare with two BCC wins never won HOY for the rest of their lives.

(Do turf writers even vote for HOY? If not, who does? I honestly don't know.)

i'm pretty sure they intend it to be that way, since it's voted each year, for one year. and let's see her run in the bcc before we bestow that victory on her.

and didn't tiznow win two classics in a row, and lose hoy to point given the second year? it's more than one race for the award people. the trophy goes to the bcc winner, not necessarily end of year honors as well.

Merlinsky · #13 06-13-2010, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm pretty sure they intend it to be that way, since it's voted each year, for one year. and let's see her run in the bcc before we bestow that victory on her.

and didn't tiznow win two classics in a row, and lose hoy to point given the second year? it's more than one race for the award people. the trophy goes to the bcc winner, not necessarily end of year honors as well.

Yeah, and Midnight Lute won the Sprint twice and lost the Eclipse the second time to a horse that didn't even run in the race (due to injury but still..)

Then of course the battle for HOY in 1978 when you have Seattle Slew at 4 and Affirmed during his TC year. That had to be a really tough situation.

Antitrust32 · #14 06-14-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean smith

I'm not totally disagreeing with you guys. HOY probably should be based on 2010 alone. That being said, should Zenyatta take her second straight BCC on dirt over the other big guns, thus completely validating her unblemished record, would it? Absolutely not. C'mon. You boys watch and follow other sports, right? Players of the Year and MVPs are given for lifetime achievement all the time. Karl Malone got one. Charles Barkley got one. Barry Larkin got one...

I think as bad a rap as sportswriters get, they do like to recognize greatness when it's all said and done. No one is going to want to explain how a 20-20 mare with two BCC wins never won HOY for the rest of their lives.

(Do turf writers even vote for HOY? If not, who does? I honestly don't know.)

I'll say it. If QR & Rachel are in the BCC and Z beats them, there is no way Zenyatta doesnt get HOY.

If QR wins all sorts of big races this year, and doesnt run in the BCC, and Z wins that race... I still think Z gets HOY.

But here is my prediction:

Zenyatta gets beat before the BCC and is retired the next day and doesnt make the race.

Rachel takes on males before the BCC and loses and is pointed to the BC Distaff and wins that race and wins Champ Older Mare and is then retired.

Quality Road wins the BCC and HOY and then off to stud.

Cannon Shell · #15 06-13-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean smith

So, a 20-20 lifetime record and a head-to-head win vs. QR in the BCC (especially if the field includes RA...) would not be enough to win Zenyatta HOY? A second BCC in a row, btw.

Respectfully, you are high.

Unless the anti-West Coast bias is stronger than I thought.

Being 20 for 20 should have no bearing on this years horse of the year voting.
Honestly the more you look at Zenyatta's PP's, the more of a joke it it that people think that these races that she is winning should have any bearing on the HoY voting. The same crappy schedule shouldn't be rewarded, it should be scorned.

Danzig · #16 06-13-2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Being 20 for 20 should have no bearing on this years horse of the year voting.
Honestly the more you look at Zenyatta's PP's, the more of a joke it it that people think that these races that she is winning should have any bearing on the HoY voting. The same crappy schedule shouldn't be rewarded, it should be scorned.

i laughed when one of the tvg bozos called her the greatest mare ever. ever? really? and then they mentioned that even secretariat and man o war couldn't manage a win streak like hers....

Payson Dave · #17 06-13-2010, 08:23 PM

Not at all likely to happen.... but Saratoga would be a really great place to settle question as to who is better..

slotdirt · #18 06-13-2010, 08:24 PM

I think it's more likely that I am on the Olympic team for shotput in 2012 than it is for Zenyatta to appear at Saratoga this summer.

2Hot4TV · #19 06-13-2010, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I think it's more likely that I am on the Olympic team for shotput in 2012 than it is for Zenyatta to appear at Saratoga this summer.

and my fat a s s running in the 100 meters.

Cannon Shell · #20 06-13-2010, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i laughed when one of the tvg bozos called her the greatest mare ever. ever? really? and then they mentioned that even secretariat and man o war couldn't manage a win streak like hers....

Yeah Man o War and Secretariat would have struggled to win the Vanity....

When someone constantly has to tell you how great something is, it usually isn't that great at all. The disappointing thing is the trend of the top horses not running very much sucked, but the new trend of not running very much while do that rare running in soft races is even more troubling.