Fleur de Lis and Foster online?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It'd be pretty damn hilarious (and telling) if Zenyatta went 20-for-20 and never won HOY.

If she went 20-20, I think she would have to win the Classic this year, and that would assure her HOY....
But like Brian said above, he is simply wrong. QR and Blame are both legit, QR is actually far ahead right now for HOY IMO.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

If she went 20-20, I think she would have to win the Classic this year, and that would assure her HOY....
But like Brian said above, he is simply wrong. QR and Blame are both legit, QR is actually far ahead right now for HOY IMO.

I disagree that the Classic would assure her anything if they keep going the safe route. If QR wins the Donn, Met Mile, Whitney and Woodward, that would probably beat (essentially) just a BCC win.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I disagree that the Classic would assure her anything if they keep going the safe route. If QR wins the Donn, Met Mile, Whitney and Woodward, that would probably beat (essentially) just a BCC win.

You know I am the biggest QR guy around, but I disagree.... If she wins the Classic this year, I would think she has to win it, but these are all huge ifs...For the record, I think QR is sitting on a MONSTER YEAR, and he will win HOY.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

You know I am the biggest QR guy around, but I disagree.... If she wins the Classic this year, I would think she has to win it, but these are all huge ifs...For the record, I think QR is sitting on a MONSTER YEAR, and he will win HOY.

For the record, huh?

I'm glad you finally took a strong position on the horse.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

You know I am the biggest QR guy around, but I disagree.... If she wins the Classic this year, I would think she has to win it, but these are all huge ifs...For the record, I think QR is sitting on a MONSTER YEAR, and he will win HOY.

He's already had a great year, it's a shame they're only going to run him six times. And there's no way in hell he beats Zenyatta at 1 1/4.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He's already had a great year, it's a shame they're only going to run him six times. And there's no way in hell he beats Zenyatta at 1 1/4.

Hmm.... I dont think he will have as much of a problem going 10f then everyone else does, his JCGC was fine IMO. If he gets a fast dirt track I think hes long gone.

[NTamm1215]

I think the doubts about Quality Road getting 10 furlongs are based on a fallacy, and that's that he was the same horse he was in 2009. I think that's largely untrue based on his last two races.

I find those that consider QR losing to Summer Bird twice as an indictment of his ability to get 10 furlongs are ignoring the circumstances. If you can't make adjustments or concessions for dull performances based on conditions or other independent factors you'll have a very hard time making money betting on thoroughbred racing.

NT

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I think the doubts about Quality Road getting 10 furlongs are based on a fallacy, and that's that he was the same horse he was in 2009. I think that's largely untrue based on his last two races.

I find those that consider QR losing to Summer Bird twice as an indictment of his ability to get 10 furlongs are ignoring the circumstances. If you can't make adjustments or concessions for dull performances based on conditions or other independent factors you'll have a very hard time making money betting on thoroughbred racing.

NT

An equal fallacy is the presumption that Quality Road hates wet tracks IMO. He was beaten twice at the distance by a horse that didn't possess his talent. And he's better this year than last? Maybe marginally, but he ran some phenomenal races last season. He's been a superstar both years.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I think the doubts about Quality Road getting 10 furlongs are based on a fallacy, and that's that he was the same horse he was in 2009. I think that's largely untrue based on his last two races.

I find those that consider QR losing to Summer Bird twice as an indictment of his ability to get 10 furlongs are ignoring the circumstances. If you can't make adjustments or concessions for dull performances based on conditions or other independent factors you'll have a very hard time making money betting on thoroughbred racing.

NT

I love when we agree.
Its like you took this straight off my tounge.

[dean smith]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I disagree that the Classic would assure her anything if they keep going the safe route. If QR wins the Donn, Met Mile, Whitney and Woodward, that would probably beat (essentially) just a BCC win.

So, a 20-20 lifetime record and a head-to-head win vs. QR in the BCC (especially if the field includes RA...) would not be enough to win Zenyatta HOY? A second BCC in a row, btw.

Respectfully, you are high.

Unless the anti-West Coast bias is stronger than I thought.

[slotdirt]

I would suggest that anybody who thinks Zenyatta's really going to cross those dreaded Rockies again is the one who is smoking something off.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I would suggest that anybody who thinks Zenyatta's really going to cross those dreaded Rockies again is the one who is smoking something off.

I was thinking the same thing earlier. Im willing to bet she wont even run in the Classic this year

[dean smith]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I would suggest that anybody who thinks Zenyatta's really going to cross those dreaded Rockies again is the one who is smoking something off.

For the record, I'm more of a Rachel-guy than a Zenyatta-guy. But the last two times Zenyatta's camp has said, "here we are, come get us" (BC and Apple Blossom), Team Rachel has done the ducking.

"We don't run on synthetics" and "we're not fit enough right now." WTF?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dean smith

For the record, I'm more of a Rachel-guy than a Zenyatta-guy. But the last two times Zenyatta's camp has said, "here we are, come get us" (BC and Apple Blossom), Team Rachel has done the ducking.

"We don't run on synthetics" and "we're not fit enough right now." WTF?

There is an equal amount of blame to be assigned.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dean smith

So, a 20-20 lifetime record and a head-to-head win vs. QR in the BCC (especially if the field includes RA...) would not be enough to win Zenyatta HOY? A second BCC in a row, btw.

Respectfully, you are high.

Unless the anti-West Coast bias is stronger than I thought.

Is it Horse of the Life or Horse of the Year? Your assumption that she'd be home free is based on the idea that the voters will treat it as a lifetime achievement award. That's made up. She was 14-for-14 after the Classic last year and she still didn't get it.

[dean smith]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Is it Horse of the Life or Horse of the Year? Your assumption that she'd be home free is based on the idea that the voters will treat it as a lifetime achievement award. That's made up. She was 14-for-14 after the Classic last year and she still didn't get it.

I hear you, but would the voters really take a third straight undefeated season and the biggest non-TC race of the year win against the other contenders and deny her again?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dean smith

I hear you, but would the voters really take a third straight undefeated season and the biggest non-TC race of the year win against the other contenders and deny her again?

A filly that races 5 times, 4 against fillies and once against colts doesnt really have much of a case unless there is absolutely noone else to vote for.

[dean smith]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

A filly that races 5 times, 4 against fillies and once against colts doesnt really have much of a case unless there is absolutely noone else to vote for.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you guys. HOY probably should be based on 2010 alone. That being said, should Zenyatta take her second straight BCC on dirt over the other big guns, thus completely validating her unblemished record, would it? Absolutely not. C'mon. You boys watch and follow other sports, right? Players of the Year and MVPs are given for lifetime achievement all the time. Karl Malone got one. Charles Barkley got one. Barry Larkin got one...

I think as bad a rap as sportswriters get, they do like to recognize greatness when it's all said and done. No one is going to want to explain how a 20-20 mare with two BCC wins never won HOY for the rest of their lives.

(Do turf writers even vote for HOY? If not, who does? I honestly don't know.)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dean smith

So, a 20-20 lifetime record and a head-to-head win vs. QR in the BCC (especially if the field includes RA...) would not be enough to win Zenyatta HOY? A second BCC in a row, btw.

Respectfully, you are high.

Unless the anti-West Coast bias is stronger than I thought.

Being 20 for 20 should have no bearing on this years horse of the year voting.
Honestly the more you look at Zenyatta's PP's, the more of a joke it it that people think that these races that she is winning should have any bearing on the HoY voting. The same crappy schedule shouldn't be rewarded, it should be scorned.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Being 20 for 20 should have no bearing on this years horse of the year voting.
Honestly the more you look at Zenyatta's PP's, the more of a joke it it that people think that these races that she is winning should have any bearing on the HoY voting. The same crappy schedule shouldn't be rewarded, it should be scorned.

i laughed when one of the tvg bozos called her the greatest mare ever. ever? really? and then they mentioned that even secretariat and man o war couldn't manage a win streak like hers....