Fleur de Lis and Foster online?

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I missed it...when did Zenyatta beat boys at equal weights?

Zenyatta only spotted the boys 3 pounds in the Classic and I was refering to RA racing Zenyatta at equal weight at 1 1/4.

RA had a nice go as a 3 yo, but I still dont see undefeated in her PPs.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

RA had a nice go as a 3 yo, but I still dont see undefeated in her PPs.

BFD.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

BFD.

`Oh ,but it is.

It's amazing hope people just love to hate.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

`Oh ,but it is.

It's amazing hope people just love to hate.

Nah, but when your argument is essentially "Rachel's nice but she's not UNDEFEATEDD!!!1!!!11!!!" it's too easy to point out the lameness.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Nah, but when your argument is essentially "Rachel's nice but she's not UNDEFEATEDD!!!1!!!11!!!" it's too easy to point out the lameness.

Zenyatta is a deep closer that is undefeated in 16 races and that will never be done again at grade 1 level racing.

RA has shown that she was the top 3 yo in the country last year and her campain this year is showing signs that she might not want to keep doing it. That is not the same a undefeated over 16 races.

People do love to hate, weather its East vs West, Bush vs Obama or Z vs RA thats the way it is.

Enjoy it while you can.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

Zenyatta only spotted the boys 3 pounds in the Classic and I was refering to RA racing Zenyatta at equal weight at 1 1/4.

.

So when did Zenyatta race RA at equal weight at 1 1/4 then? What am I missing here?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

Zenyatta only spotted the boys 3 pounds in the Classic and I was refering to RA racing Zenyatta at equal weight at 1 1/4.

RA had a nice go as a 3 yo, but I still dont see undefeated in her PPs.

not much of a difference, but don't they go 126/121 in the classic as far as weight goes? also, granted that the classic was definitely zenyatta's best field she faced, doesn't it mean something that gio ponti hasn't won since? summer bird ran third, who rachel beat by eight earlier in the year. i don't think the classic was any more difficult than the woodward, and rachel was a 3 yo, whereas zenyatta was five at the time. i don't think pointing to winning that race means a thing versus winning against older in the woodward.
as for her having a nice go at 3, but not being undefeated, she was undefeated at 3. not in her career, but last year, her year was just as perfect as zen's. and with more starts.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not much of a difference, but don't they go 126/121 in the classic as far as weight goes?

In Breeders Cup Classic, older males carry 126 and older females 123. 3YOs get a four pound allowance based on their age.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

In Breeders Cup Classic, older males carry 126 and older females 123. 3YOs get a four pound allowance based on their age.

ah, got it. thanks for the info.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not much of a difference, but don't they go 126/121 in the classic as far as weight goes? also, granted that the classic was definitely zenyatta's best field she faced, doesn't it mean something that gio ponti hasn't won since? summer bird ran third, who rachel beat by eight earlier in the year. i don't think the classic was any more difficult than the woodward, and rachel was a 3 yo, whereas zenyatta was five at the time. i don't think pointing to winning that race means a thing versus winning against older in the woodward.
as for her having a nice go at 3, but not being undefeated, she was undefeated at 3. not in her career, but last year, her year was just as perfect as zen's. and with more starts.

As far as weight goes ( some will say that its not a factor) it is considered that 1 pound equals one lenght when the assignment is above 121 and the distance is over 1 1/8 miles. Zenyatta just seems to be right at home going 1 1/4, while I see RA being best at 1 1/8 and shorter.

Yesterday RA ran her race (I havent looked at the numbers) and it looked like all of her races, except no one ran a new top to beat her and she ran her same race.

[Danzig]

i'd like to see rachel at 1 1/4 just to know. i have a hard time believing a 16th further than her preakness run would be her downfall.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'd like to see rachel at 1 1/4 just to know. i have a hard time believing a 16th further than her preakness run would be her downfall.

Seem to me that at some point weight makes a differance and when Zenyatta is dragging 129 today with a mare like St. Trinians getting first run on a closer and has a brillant turn of foot, I think Z gets beat today.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

Seem to me that at some point weight makes a differance and when Zenyatta is dragging 129 today with a mare like St. Trinians getting first run on a closer and has a brillant turn of foot, I think Z gets beat today.

The only way I can see Zenyatta losing today is if Mike leaves her too much to do at the 1/4 pole, if St. Trinians or Zardana are within striking range she will run them down. I agree about St. Trinians getting first run and it will be interesting if she can maintain her run without expending too much energy to hold off the inevitable run by Zenyatta, the way Mitchell horses are running at this meet it does make this an interesting race to watch.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by CSC

The only way I can see Zenyatta losing today is if Mike leaves her too much to do at the 1/4 pole, if St. Trinians or Zardana are within striking range she will run them down. I agree about St. Trinians getting first run and it will be interesting if she can maintain her run without expending too much energy to hold off the inevitable run by Zenyatta, the way Mitchell horses are running at this meet it does make this an interesting race to watch.

One of the things makes Zenyatta so special is that been able to overcome the pace not being in her favor.

A closer needs to have the pace back up in the lane to added their finish and I dont see St. Trinians slowing down in the last 1/16 .

I want Z to win and set up big BC show down in the Classic.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

Seem to me that at some point weight makes a differance and when Zenyatta is dragging 129 today with a mare like St. Trinians getting first run on a closer and has a brillant turn of foot, I think Z gets beat today.

she dragged the same weight a year ago, she's just as good now as then. i'm not sure she gets beat today. but that's why they run them.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'd like to see rachel at 1 1/4 just to know. i have a hard time believing a 16th further than her preakness run would be her downfall.

If the Preakness was another 16th she loses.

But there's no shame in being a horse who handles 9f... and can go longer under the right circumstances.

Ruffian only comes around once every few decades.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If the Preakness was another 16th she loses.

But there's no shame in being a horse who handles 9f... and can go longer under the right circumstances.

Ruffian only comes around once every few decades.

and i also have to think if she ran in a 10f race, the early portions of the race would be run differently. she squared off vs a very, very fast horse early that day, and still held on late. would mine that bird have caught her in the last 16th? maybe. maybe not.
and no, there's no shame if she can't handle 10f. but i also recall congaree getting that criticism on a regular basis, but he showed that wasn't the case at all.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

Zenyatta only spotted the boys 3 pounds in the Classic and I was refering to RA racing Zenyatta at equal weight at 1 1/4.

RA had a nice go as a 3 yo, but I still dont see undefeated in her PPs.

I dont understand for the life of me why they need to meet at 1 1/4? I guess its the "classic distance" by old school definition.. but it is DEFINATELY not the classic distance in this past decade. they should meet at 1 1/8. its both horses' best distance.

CSC drives me nuts with his "classic distance" crap like it means ANYTHING.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I dont understand for the life of me why they need to meet at 1 1/4? I guess its the "classic distance" by old school definition.. but it is DEFINATELY not the classic distance in this past decade. they should meet at 1 1/8. its both horses' best distance.

CSC drives me nuts with his "classic distance" crap like it means ANYTHING.

You could have probably just stopped there and still ended up with a fairly accurate sentence.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I dont understand for the life of me why they need to meet at 1 1/4? I guess its the "classic distance" by old school definition.. but it is DEFINATELY not the classic distance in this past decade. they should meet at 1 1/8. its both horses' best distance.

CSC drives me nuts with his "classic distance" crap like it means ANYTHING.

Really?

Are you absolutely certain that "1 1/8" is Z's "best distance"?



…running 1 1/4 miles on dirt is regarded as the definitive test of American thoroughbreds. – Andrew Beyer, 12/26/09


Thank you, Mr. Beyer

The proper time and place for Z and RA to hook up is clearly the BCC at CD … where (hopefully) they'll be part of a nice full field of the best runners in the world.

Incredibly, the reigning 'horse-of-the-year' has yet to prove herself at the CLASSIC DISTANCE…