nyra

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Of course this is all just a matter of opinion but Travers day and its undercard usually matchup pretty well to Belmont day's card. The difference is that Saratoga averages upwards of 25k people on Sundays and Belmont averages about 5k.

no doubt it's a nice card, but is it 13 races? at any rate, i can understand taking off the day after an undertaking like that. and between spring and fall, belmont won't miss a sunday card, whereas i'd think saratoga would.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no doubt it's a nice card, but is it 13 races? at any rate, i can understand taking off the day after an undertaking like that. and between spring and fall, belmont won't miss a sunday card, whereas i'd think saratoga would.

They usually have at least 12.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no doubt it's a nice card, but is it 13 races? at any rate, i can understand taking off the day after an undertaking like that. and between spring and fall, belmont won't miss a sunday card, whereas i'd think saratoga would.

yes its 12 - 13 races of equal or better quality

but I dont think people can compare Saratoga's attendance to anywhere else.. simply a different (and better) breed!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by HomerS

As far as running so many days, why woudlnt they not run on Thursday then? And run Sunday? If concerned about horse shortage? Cmon this isnt that complicated. If you run a business you have to look at these things.

Compare your average Thursday attendance and handle with average Sunday attendance and handle.

Does someone really want to make the case that Thursday is higher?

Look at May 20 versus May 23

Mind you this isnt scientific but feel very comfortable in saying if you looked at this longer term you would see same results

Do you think that the people who run NYRA didn't take these things into consideration? That someone just flippantly said "hey i'm having a big post Belmont party so we shouln't run on Sunday"?

Or are you just playing the contrarian card in an attempt to make yourself look smarter than everyone else?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by HomerS

I'm not posting to play games or be "contrary". I'm also not going to assume that racetrack management thinks long and hard about everything. Especially when you look at state of the game and fans frustration.

I actually like NYRA- think they are better then most.

Just discussing the issue. Dont think its crazy to wonder why they would close on Sunday compared to another day. Or at all. There could be good reasons. Not sure have seen them yet.

There were several reasons given.
1. Cleanup after the big event
2. NYRA having run 10 cards in 11 days.
3. Employees worked unusually long hours on Saturday
4. Hangover effect after big days that other venues have chosen to skip
5. Travis showed that there was no handle bump after the derby or preakness showing that they weren't missing out on an unusually good day of racing.

other potential reasons
6. union wages are cheaper on weekdays
7. potential of a carryover is greater due to the nature of the belmont card and only Gales will argue that leadup time isn't better in these situations

Perhaps these reasons arent good enough for you guys but i find it hard to believe that anyone thinks that taking Sunday off wasn't a good idea.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There were several reasons given.
1. Cleanup after the big event
2. NYRA having run 10 cards in 11 days.
3. Employees worked unusually long hours on Saturday
4. Hangover effect after big days that other venues have chosen to skip
5. Travis showed that there was no handle bump after the derby or preakness showing that they weren't missing out on an unusually good day of racing.

other potential reasons
6. union wages are cheaper on weekdays
7. potential of a carryover is greater due to the nature of the belmont card and only Gales will argue that leadup time isn't better in these situations

Perhaps these reasons arent good enough for you guys but i find it hard to believe that anyone thinks that taking Sunday off wasn't a good idea.

It's also important to consider that pretty much 3 to 4 years out of 10 it will be a Triple Crown attempt, and thus a much larger crowd, which makes running the next day even more problematic.

[MaTH716]

I just don't think that anyone is giving consideration to the people that work at the track either. This is their biggest day of the year. Gates opened at (I believe 8:30) for a 11:35 first post. The last race went off at 7:50. It's not like they shut the lights off and go home at 8 o'clock after the last race goes official. I'm thinking that many people were there very late that night, cleaning up after such a big day. Most likely after working there for the entire day. All this coming in a span where they raced 10 times in 11 days.

But then again if they did put together a card for Sunday for the sake of just racing for a 11th time in 12 days and it came up below par, people would have chastised NYRA for not anticipating a carryover. Then they would have bitched and moaned about the crappy card that they would be looking at for such a big carryover.

It just seems like some people like to bitch and moan reguardless of what goes on there.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

It just seems like some people like to bitch and moan reguardless of what goes on there.

It's the racing fan way.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Why is it "bitching and moaning"?

Understand players have been beaten down forever to shut their mouth and take it. Don't see wondering why a business, especially one hurting bad for cash, would run on Thursday instead of Sunday when their own numbers show they do better on Sunday.
What other business in the country would operate like that?

What other businesses customers would be called bitchers and moaners for wanting to send them their dollars?

Sensitive to the employee issue, but lets get real here. Look at all the recent job cuts there. Where has been the groundswell of concern here or anyplace else for those peoples jobs? But now its give the poor people a rest? Dont think could get people to work some OT or something? And again if they took of Thursday wouldnt be an issue.

Besides the employee situation, I just don't know if they could have the venue ready for racing a card on Sunday. Sunset for Saturday was 8:23, the last race went off at 7:50. I have no idea what time everyone got out of Belmont on Saturday, so the staff could start preparing if there was racing the next day. But I'm guessing they wouldn't be able to start to about 9pm at the minimum. I'm not just talking about the grandstand, but the backyard at Belmont which is huge (and I don't believe it's a lighted area either). It's a giant venue, that probably takes some time to clean, plain and simple.

As far as the bitching and moaning goes, I really believe that if they did race on Sunday and the card wasn't up to some people's speed then there would be posted threads about that around here. I just don't understand what the big deal is about one dark Sunday.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Besides the employee situation, I just don't know if they could have the venue ready for racing a card on Sunday. Sunset for Saturday was 8:23, the last race went off at 7:50. I have no idea what time everyone got out of Belmont on Saturday, so the staff could start preparing if there was racing the next day. But I'm guessing they wouldn't be able to start to about 9pm at the minimum. I'm not just talking about the grandstand, but the backyard at Belmont which is huge (and I don't believe it's a lighted area either). It's a giant venue, that probably takes some time to clean, plain and simple.

As far as the bitching and moaning goes, I really believe that if they did race on Sunday and the card wasn't up to some people's speed then there would be posted threads about that around here. I just don't understand what the big deal is about one dark Sunday.

matt the card is the card, 1 stakes /feature race would have been fine......... we live in ny you cannot simply tell me that the facility itself could not have been ready for sunday , to even suggest that is a farce when in the past they have run on that sunday

people want a day off i get it, take mon - wed of this week off , start racing on thursday no?

not everyone can play during the week, some of nyra customers are weekend only players , but that doesn't seem to matter to anyone here besides Homer S. the weekend only players lost out on a card and a potential pick 6 play ....not everyone has a phone account/ not everyone has the internet ....some people work during the week and cannot physically get to the track or an otb location to make a play or they simply don't have the time during the week.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Why is it "bitching and moaning"?

Understand players have been beaten down forever to shut their mouth and take it. Don't see wondering why a business, especially one hurting bad for cash, would run on Thursday instead of Sunday when their own numbers show they do better on Sunday.

What other business in the country would operate like that?

What other businesses customers would be called bitchers and moaners for wanting to send them their dollars?

Sensitive to the employee issue, but lets get real here. Look at all the recent job cuts there. Where has been the groundswell of concern here or anyplace else for those peoples jobs? But now its give the poor people a rest? Dont think could get people to work some OT or something? And again if they took of Thursday wouldn't be an issue.

Spare us the self pity. I am not particularly concerned for NYRA employees welfare but NYRA management is, which is why this was brought up as a potential reason why they were closed on Sunday. Not because we felt badly for them.

The idea that business on Sunday post-Belmont day is so much better than business on Thursday that all other considerations should be tabled is mistaken. And the irony of people like you always prefacing NYRA with terms like 'cash strapped' ignore the reality that the reason they are cash strapped is that they aren't getting a significant portion of their share of the handle, not that they are making poor management decisions.

I would think that you would be focusing on the final days of Monmouth since you are the Prophet of Doom there as well.

[blackthroatedwind]

Suggesting we should have closed on Thursday and run on Sunday suggests a complete disconnect. It is, quite frankly, nonsensical.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by HomerS

You have made a few personal attacks here. Not sure where they are coming from. I have not engaged in such. And am not engaging in "self pity". Which is it by the way self pity or feeling smarter then everyone else? Make up your mind already.

Seriously can discuss this without the other stuff. Dont see a need for it.

As far as "cash strapped" I am well aware of the reasons for it. That doesnt change my thought on Sunday being a better day then Thursday.

I have been a big NYRA supporter over the years.

They have been held hostage by the politicians and broken promises for years I get it. They were subject to politically motivated witchhunt by Bruno and "Friends of NY Racing". I get that too.

So be careful about what you are assuming my thoughts about NYRA are. The "people like you" comment couldnt be further off base. Why not ask next time instead of assuming? How many times have I prefaced comments about NYRA with cash strapped? Most of my comments on this board have been about NYRA generating a significant amount of handle, and doing so with smaller purses then Monmouth.

Now you are a victim...

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Not a very productive comment or way to make a point.

Ummm sarcasm. But I apologize. I hate being unproductive.

[parsixfarms]

2008 was the first year that NYRA did not run the Sunday after the Belmont. For two years prior, divisions of the NY Stallion Series were the "feature" races that day, so MaTH716 is probably correct that, if NYRA were running on Sunday with a big carryover and those races as the "featured" attractions, many on here likely would have been complaining about the quality of the card.

For many of the reasons stated elsewhere in here (the 13-race cards on Belmont Day are only a recent phenomenom), I totally understand why they did not run on Sunday. If I had to criticize the recent racing schedule, in the face of what NYRA officials have acknowledged as a dwindling horse population, it was a mistake to run the Wednesday between Memorial Day and Belmont Stakes Day.