SUN: Racing's media makeover paying off

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Grasping at strws? You are now analyzing my choice of words?

The fact that of the 109 condo units sold so far all have been 100% financed by City center themselves isnt troubling to you? The fact they were planning on $2.7 billion dollars in revenue of condo sales at the height of the market isnt troubling? The fact that when launched the MGM stock prices was $100 a share and it is now at $14 isnt troublesome? That this place was a stretch in the best of times and is assuredly facing something less than that isnt troubling?

You can't get condo financing in Nevada, Arizona, Florida and parts of california with Fannie Mae unless you have at least 20% down as an owner occupant and over 25% as an investor...if the condo is warrantable. Those condos aren't warrantable because of lack of presale and/or investor concentration. FHA is going to be the same problem. Considering those two entities make up over 90% of all loans closed and no bank is going to portfolio a loan for a vegas condo without 50% skin in the game, the fact that the project is doing the financing is to be expected. That will change as the market stabilizes.

Are you really going to compare gaming stock prices in 2003 to 2010 and blame it on city center? Come on Chuck.

They aren't far from profitablity. I can't help that you can't understand that.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You can't get condo financing in Nevada, Arizona, Florida and parts of california with Fannie Mae unless you have at least 20% down as an owner occupant and over 25% as an investor...if the condo is warrantable. Those condos aren't warrantable because of lack of presale and/or investor concentration. FHA is going to be the same problem. Considering those two entities make up over 90% of all loans closed and no bank is going to portfolio a loan for a vegas casino without 50% skin in the game, the fact that the project is doing the financing is to be expected. That will change as the market stabilizes.

Are you really going to compare gaming stock prices in 2003 to 2010 and blame it on city center? Come on Chuck.

They aren't far from profitablity. I can't help that you can't understand that.

Maybe they can do a package deal with free skiing at the Xandu at the Meadowlands.. They shout get Dubai to buy that Turkey also they needs some quality in the portfolio

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You can't get condo financing in Nevada, Arizona, Florida and parts of california with Fannie Mae unless you have at least 20% down as an owner occupant and over 25% as an investor...if the condo is warrantable. Those condos aren't warrantable because of lack of presale and/or investor concentration. FHA is going to be the same problem. Considering those two entities make up over 90% of all loans closed and no bank is going to portfolio a loan for a vegas casino without 50% skin in the game, the fact that the project is doing the financing is to be expected. That will change as the market stabilizes.

Are you really going to compare gaming stock prices in 2003 to 2010 and blame it on city center? Come on Chuck.

They aren't far from profitablity. I can't help that you can't understand that.

The arent that far from profitability. Ok.

They have already marked the condo prices down 30% and they had as many people walk away and give up their deposits as people who bought places. They have to provide all the financing for the few people that do want to buy. Thier centerpiece hotel opened and is 23% off the rest of the strip in occupancy. They have a $500 million dollar construction expense dispute.

So virtually no one is buying their condos. As many people walked away as bought. The few that did buy cant get financing anywhere else. No one is staying in their hotel. And you claim that they are close to profitability. I suppose that MGM stock should be a strong buy that $14 then? How much MGM stock do you own since you seem to be closing your eyes and wishing that all the bad news clouds would disappear?

I am not saying that City center was the entire reason that the stock tanked but the fact is that companies flush with cash will operate in a different plane than those who are having losing quarters.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The arent that far from profitability. Ok.

They have already marked the condo prices down 30% and they had as many people walk away and give up their deposits as people who bought places. They have to provide all the financing for the few people that do want to buy. Thier centerpiece hotel opened and is 23% off the rest of the strip in occupancy. They have a $500 million dollar construction expense dispute.

So virtually no one is buying their condos. As many people walked away as bought. The few that did buy cant get financing anywhere else. No one is staying in their hotel. And you claim that they are close to profitability. I suppose that MGM stock should be a strong but that $14 then? How much MGM stock do you own since you seem to be closing your eyes and wishing that all the bad news clouds would disappear?

Actually, if you changed your google search, you might find that the convention booking is surging for the second half of 2010 and into 2011 and occupancy will be greater than 80%. The reason they were running at lower occupancy was to protect their price point which is going to be higher being geared to convention business.

Aria has actually improved occupancy in each successive month since its open. Remember, the average price per night is $194 vs.97.21 for the rest of the strip. May bookings indicate over 80% occupancy.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Actually, if you changed your google search, you might find that the convention booking is surging for the second half of 2010 and into 2011 and occupancy will be greater than 80%. The reason they were running at lower occupancy was to protect their price point which is going to be higher being geared to convention business.

Aria has actually improved occupancy in each successive month since its open. Remember, the average price per night is $194 vs.97.21 for the rest of the strip. May bookings indicate over 80% occupancy.

Perhaps you should be working for MGM since you seem to be the only person who is so bullish on this project.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Perhaps you should be working for MGM since you seem to be the only person who is so bullish on this project.

Perhaps. But this is straying way off the original topic.

Charlestown does well because the horse racing product is just part of the overall package. Borgata does well because the gambling product is just a part of the total package.

Both places have done a great job marketing to non traditional gaming demographics and thus have outperformed most everyone else in their respective sectors.

Neither Borgata's nor Ctown's rewards programs are any better than their competitors nor are their payouts/takeouts any better. If anything, they are worse.

So whats the difference? Aren't there lessons to be learned?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Perhaps. But this is straying way off the original topic.

Charlestown does well because the horse racing product is just part of the overall package. Borgata does well because the gambling product is just a part of the total package.

Both places have done a great job marketing to non traditional gaming demographics and thus have outperformed most everyone else in their respective sectors.

Neither Borgata's nor Ctown's rewards programs are any better than their competitors nor are their payouts/takeouts any better. If anything, they are worse.

So whats the difference? Aren't there lessons to be learned?

Proof of this?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Proof of this?

Proof of their of their sucess or proof that the reasons listed are the cause of their respective success?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The arent that far from profitability. Ok.

They have already marked the condo prices down 30% and they had as many people walk away and give up their deposits as people who bought places. They have to provide all the financing for the few people that do want to buy. Thier centerpiece hotel opened and is 23% off the rest of the strip in occupancy. They have a $500 million dollar construction expense dispute.

So virtually no one is buying their condos. As many people walked away as bought. The few that did buy cant get financing anywhere else. No one is staying in their hotel. And you claim that they are close to profitability. I suppose that MGM stock should be a strong buy that $14 then? How much MGM stock do you own since you seem to be closing your eyes and wishing that all the bad news clouds would disappear?

I am not saying that City center was the entire reason that the stock tanked but the fact is that companies flush with cash will operate in a different plane than those who are having losing quarters.

I've never been a proponent of the project, because I think it's far too ambitious in terms of residential plans in the current (new) economy especially given their debt load when the project started- and on top of that siphons off business from their premier product next door, but the fact is they will be profitable at 75% occupancy at their current room rates based on their most recent 10Q and independent research. So- they are in fact close to profitability.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

I've never been a proponent of the project, because I think it's far too ambitious in terms of residential plans in the current (new) economy, and on top of that siphons off business from their premier product next door, but the fact is they will be profitable at 75% occupancy at their current room rates based on their most recent 10Q and independent research. So- they are in fact close to profitability.

The hotel being at 75% capacity makes the entire project profitable? That seems impossible.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The hotel being at 75% capacity makes the entire project profitable? That seems impossible.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/CityCe....html?x=0&.v=5

Bottom of the article.

Yes- 75% means they are in the black operationally, obviously they have to have some pretty robust years to recoup the cost of the project.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/CityCe....html?x=0&.v=5

Bottom of the article.

Yes- 75% means they are in the black operationally, obviously they have to have some pretty robust years to recoup the cost of the project.

Yeah that just means they arent losing money on the operation of the hotel though. The residential side has to be a bloodbath and the debt service on the $8 billion dollars it cost to build it has to be massive.