Zenyatta v. Rail Trip??

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Depends on who QR beats in these races. If it's the same contingent he handled down in Florida, or that RA beat last year, then I'm not buying it. Any 'special' older males running this year? It certainly doesn't appear that there's a special 3 year old this year. And, let's face it, QR is not going 10F down at CD.

If I owned this mare and I brought her back, at an age when most would retire her, because I felt that she should've been Horse of the Year last year, why would I go out of my way to put her under extra pressure? Especially when the reigning Horse of the Year doesn't appear up to it this year.

This is not to say that RT, or anything else out in CALI, offers much in the way of competion for her in a fairly run race.

Like open company versus restricted?

[letswastemoney]

But will there still be free Zenyatta bobbleheads if she runs in the HGC instead????

[Smooth Operator]

Ah, can't ya just feel the love in the air here at DT … lol


Would've been great to see Z in that Foster, but can't blame the connections AT ALL for pointing her to the Vanity again instead.

She's on the verge of doing something historic … and obviously has a better chance of breaking the record by racing at home against females.

Doing anything else AT THIS POINT would be foolish, in my estimation.


If things go as planned in the V, wouldn't be surprised if they point her to the Gold Cup NEXT.

[blackthroatedwind]

Historic for sure!

No supposed top horse has ever dodged competitive races like Zenyatta. Hooray!

[stonegossard]

She kinda reminds me of that horse that ran in New Mexico who won 16 races or so against the SAME horses over and over. I can't remember the horses name.....shocking.

[Mawhip]

I love how everyone applauds the Mosses for keeping her in training. They guy is in his mid 70's. The chances of seeing Zenyatta's babies run is not great. Further is there any guarantee they will be any good. It certainly looks like they enjoy watching her win. Why would they have retired her if she's sound. Especially since they are going to run her against creme puffs all year.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

She kinda reminds me of that horse that ran in New Mexico who won 16 races or so against the SAME horses over and over. I can't remember the horses name.....shocking.

Nothing stopping the supposed HotY from coming out to test the dual BC champ on 6/13...

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Nothing stopping the supposed HotY from coming out to test the dual BC champ on 6/13...

Still sore about Zenyatta losing eh?

Why would 2010 HOY Rachel Alexandra want to go run on a different surface than the BC in a meaningless race at a meaningless track. I am sure the connections will run her at a real track like Belmont or Saratoga.

[miraja2]

Although this thread is unfortunately becoming yet another RA-Zenyatta thread, I think the original poster raised an interesting point.
Personally I can't really blame the connections of Zenyatta if they decide they don't want to follow Quality Road and Rachel (and whomever else might emerge this year as a decent runner) all around the country the entire year. Perhaps they figure they have the best horse and so it isn't their job to make a big race happen, particularly after they did their part at Oaklawn earlier in the year.

That's all fine. But when there is a big (and historically significant) race IN SoCal, with a pretty darn good horse running in it, it strikes me as a different matter. They already know there isn't going to be any competition for her from fillies or mares on the synthetic. Everyone knows that. So why not run in the bigger race against the better competition? If they truly want her to be considered an all-time great, running in races like the HGC against a real horse sure seems like a better way to get that done than beating up on a couple of hopelessly overmatched allowance-types.

Not wanting to ship all over the place chasing the top horses in the entire country is one thing. Deciding not to seek out a race against a good horse on your own track is something different.

[letswastemoney]

Cigar's 1995 campaign included all these races. He didn't need to reserve his best race for one big one. He traveled all around the country and took on open company on dirt anywhere.

His only flaw was his disdain for turf surfaces.

Oaklawn Handicap
Gulfstream Park Handicap
Hollywood Gold Cup
Jockey Club Gold Cup
Pimlico Special
Breeders' Cup Classic
Donn Handicap
Massachusetts Handicap
Woodward Stakes

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Not wanting to ship all over the place chasing the top horses in the entire country is one thing. Deciding not to seek out a race against a good horse on your own track is something different.

The other horses aren't going to chase her to California because of the silly surface they are running on. Like it or not, no other big time racing outside of Keeneland's few weeks each year run on the stuff, and we all know they do it because they sell the stuff.

NYRA...no. Churchill...no. Gulfstream...no. Until Zenyatta beats talented horses on dirt, she'll just be a specialist on a surface that will most likely be gone in a decade.

[10 pnt move up]

I assume its already been stated publicly that they have no interest in running in the Vanity to get the 17th win and then running four weeks later in the Gold Cup? I don't see why that would be such a stretch, in fact it makes a lot of sense. Then they could take off two months and return at Oak Tree and start in the BC.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Actually, as Cardus points out, there is more to racing than the Breeders' Cup, and who's to say that she'll even make it to that race six months from now.

We all know that she'll probably only have, at most, four lifetime starts. And I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that, if she's racing in the fall, the final two starts of her career would likely be the the race formerly known as the Lady's Secret and the BC Classic. (And for the reason TFM noted above, I'd have no problem with the Lady's Secret, knowing it was a prep for the Classic.) There is absolutely no excuse for her not to run in the Hollywood Gold Cup, unless the mid-season portion of her campaign is simply about ducking meaningful competition until the Breeders' Cup.

I hear what you are saying; however what she is doing is no different to what other race horses are doing these days. I am actually more dissapointed on her passing the Stephen Foster where this would have been a true test for her rather than facing Rail Trip on cushion. Let's wait to see what the connections have in store for her the rest of the yr before jumping the gun on the critical dept, it is her first race back since running in the Apple Blossom, if she faces a similar fields this year I may join you in being critical of her campaign, it's a long year and atleast there has already been one major difference in her campaign this year, she shipped out east. You can't fault her if no one wanted to face her, that was out of her control, all things considered she will ship out east atleast twice this year and run on dirt twice this year, anything more is pure gravy the way I see it.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Why would 2010 HOY Rachel Alexandra want to go run on a different surface than the BC in a meaningless race at a meaningless track.

Oh I don't know … maybe cuz she's lost a TON of street cred … and beating an UNDEFEATED DUAL BC CHAMPION at her home track would go a LONG way in restoring her tarnished reputation.

I am sure the connections will run her at a real track like Belmont or Saratoga.

And she'll probably get beat there too...

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

The other horses aren't going to chase her to California because of the silly surface they are running on. Like it or not, no other big time racing outside of Keeneland's few weeks each year run on the stuff, and we all know they do it because they sell the stuff.

I understand your point, but I think you do have to give them some credit for their trip to Oaklawn this year. Hopefully she does run in the HGC following her next race, and then comes East to run in a big race. I'd love to see it, and if she does run on dirt against a really good dirt horse, I'll almost certainly be betting against her.
My point was simply that I can't really blame them for wanting to run in Cali for awhile, but IF they stay in Cali but choose not to go in the HGC, that's pretty weak.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I understand your point, but I think you do have to give them some credit for their trip to Oaklawn this year. Hopefully she does run in the HGC following her next race, and then comes East to run in a big race. I'd love to see it, and if she does run on dirt against a really good dirt horse, I'll almost certainly be betting against her.
My point was simply that I can't really blame them for wanting to run in Cali for awhile, but if they stay in Cali but choose not to go in the HGC, that's pretty weak.

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

He's only slated to run in the Met Mile and the BC Classic?

He'll be in at least two of the following four preparing for the BCC: Suburban, Whitney, Woodward, Jockey Club Gold Cup.

NT

[the_fat_man]

We're facing the very real possibility here that Z will go undefeated. There's really nothing that can beat her on synthetics (on the west coast) in a fairly run race, and, unless the male older dirt division finds a new star, that can go 10F, she'll dust anything out there presently in the BC. I mean, Rail Trip could hook her in a very small field and control the pace and somehow beat her. It's possible, what with his new jock and all. It's doubtful, however, that even if Pletcher were to go over the border and get some of that even more special Jordan elixir for QR, that he'd get 10F out of him on a non speed favoring track.
And, I don't see how RA makes it back in the picture at the moment.

It's slowly and steadily becoming a reality for her detractors that she just might prove them all wrong. Imagine that so many who have otherwise very strong opinions could be so wrong about this horse. Imagine 20 years from now DrugS Jr. is on some forum comparing horses historically using Beyers: what does he do with her?

Or Mike the EUNUCH going to his grave muttering: "she never ran FAST, so she was never any good. RA was better."

All of this is deliciously wicked.

[CSC]

All she has to do is face a horse this year that beyers 119 in a race so that she can beyer 120 to make Drugs happy, maybe he will even admit he was wrong. We are still waiting on his explanation of what went wrong with Rachel here on DT. That should be illuminating...

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

He's only slated to run in the Met Mile and the BC Classic?

He'll be in at least two of the following four preparing for the BCC: Suburban, Whitney, Woodward, Jockey Club Gold Cup.

NT

ok, 5 races then....answer the question, who is this horse I am waiting to bet on as I asked? Cause I dont see much of anything that can run long on dirt.