Obama: Arizona law securing borders is "misguided"

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

d eventually take everyone's guns away and use them for abortions.

*fingers crossed!*

[Danzig]

What am I missing about this law? It is against the law to be here illegally, right? If a policeman pulls you over and suspects you're drunk, he acts accordingly. Nervous? Maybe he suspects drugs or a gun. So he requests a search. You can refuse any of those. Again, he will act accordingly. But there's a problem if he attempts to ascertain if you're breaking an immigration law? Why?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

What am I missing about this law? It is against the law to be here illegally, right? If a policeman pulls you over and suspects you're drunk, he acts accordingly. Nervous? Maybe he suspects drugs or a gun. So he requests a search. You can refuse any of those. Again, he will act accordingly. But there's a problem if he attempts to ascertain if you're breaking an immigration law? Why?

I completely agree with you. You have these liberals that are up in arms about the law being enforced. What is wrong with enforcing the law? That being said, I agree with Obama that reform is needed. It makes no sense to call people "illegal aliens" and then treat them as if they are totally legal.

If we need these immigrants here (and we probably do need most of them), then we should make it legal for them to be here. The current situation makes no sense. We call these people illegal aliens and then allow them to stay here. It makes no sense. If we are going to allow them to stay here, then we should make it legal for them to be here.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Danzig

What am I missing about this law? It is against the law to be here illegally, right? If a policeman pulls you over and suspects you're drunk, he acts accordingly. Nervous? Maybe he suspects drugs or a gun. So he requests a search. You can refuse any of those. Again, he will act accordingly. But there's a problem if he attempts to ascertain if you're breaking an immigration law? Why?

just moving this forward. i didn't get an answer from anyone on why the feds, mexico, or anyone else should be up in arms about this law. it wasn't a rhetorical question-i really want to know why this is a bad law, or misinformed, etc.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

just moving this forward. i didn't get an answer from anyone on why the feds, mexico, or anyone else should be up in arms about this law. it wasn't a rhetorical question-i really want to know why this is a bad law, or misinformed, etc.

How about this: Your state can make it state law that it's a crime to not pay your federal income taxes. The wording can duplicate federal law. They can include a provision allowing them (the state) to look at and review your federal income tax return at their discretion, and for them to notify the IRS if the state workers thought your federal return wasn't accurate. Do you think that is constitutional?

The federal government controls immigration, not states. Our governmental system says a state doesn't have the right to intrude in federal law.

A example would be desegregation and the integration of schools. Federal law supercedes state law. And the feds will send in the troops to prove it (some states apparently didn't learn that from the Civil War)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

How about this: Your state can make it state law that it's a crime to not pay your federal income taxes. The wording can duplicate federal law. They can include a provision allowing them (the state) to look at and review your federal income tax return at their discretion, and for them to notify the IRS if the state workers thought your federal return wasn't accurate. Do you think that is constitutional?

The federal government controls immigration, not states. Our governmental system says a state doesn't have the right to intrude in federal law.

A example would be desegregation and the integration of schools. Federal law supercedes state law. And the feds will send in the troops to prove it (some states apparently didn't learn that from the Civil War)

not much of an analogy, since paying federal taxes isn't illegal, but being an illegal immigrant is just that. as for the feds being in charge, if the fibbies are looking for someone on their most wanted list, and a sherriff arrests him, they don't have a problem with that. az didn't change any laws, they just said if a cop has a suspicion, he is to question-which is the same thing they do if they suspect drunkenness, drug use, etc.

[2Hot4TV]

I want to know WHO IS GOING TO MOW MY LAWN?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I want to know WHO IS GOING TO MOW MY LAWN?

You'll just have to continue to hire those illegal, outstayed-their-student-or-work-visa'd immigrants: the Irish, the Dutch and the German.

[Riot]

not much of an analogy, since paying federal taxes isn't illegal, but being an illegal immigrant is just that.

The analogy was to NOT paying your federal taxes, or the "suspicion" by state officials that your federal taxes might not be accurate.

[Princess Doreen]

Originally Posted by Danzig

just moving this forward. i didn't get an answer from anyone on why the feds, mexico, or anyone else should be up in arms about this law. it wasn't a rhetorical question-i really want to know why this is a bad law, or misinformed, etc.

What a mess. Anyone who agrees with the State of Arizona is going to be called a racist, and the politicians in Washington are squirming in their seats and loosening their tie for fear of messing with Hispanic votes.

Here's an interesting read:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Rep...s-Must-Do-More

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Princess Doreen

What a mess. Anyone who agrees with the State of Arizona is going to be called a racist, and the politicians in Washington are squirming in their seats and loosening their tie for fear of messing with Hispanic votes.

Too bad John McCain hasn't done anything about immigration in the past 28 years he's been a politician.

Too bad Arizona didn't do anything with it's "illegal to hire an illegal" law they passed previously.

Racist? I doubt many non-brown people who don't have a drivers license when requested will be asked to produce proof of American citizenship or legal visa, etc. A third of Arizona is brown people, btw.

It's unfortunately a bit parallel to Nazi Germany, however. American citizens having to carry and produce their "papers" upon demand or "suspicion"? Specific provisions to anonymously report someone you suspect of harboring or helping or hiring illegals? Bet the soup kitchens for the homeless will love that one.

[Princess Doreen]

Originally Posted by Riot

Too bad John McCain hasn't done anything about immigration in the past 28 years he's been a politician.

Too bad Arizona didn't do anything with it's "illegal to hire an illegal" law they passed previously.

Racist? I doubt many non-brown people who don't have a drivers license when requested will be asked to produce proof of American citizenship or legal visa, etc. A third of Arizona is brown people, btw.

It's unfortunately a bit parallel to Nazi Germany, however. American citizens having to carry and produce their "papers" upon demand or "suspicion"? Specific provisions to anonymously report someone you suspect of harboring or helping or hiring illegals? Bet the soup kitchens for the homeless will love that one.

And your solution to the ever mounting problem is?

This is not a Democrat or Republican problem. It's been going on since 1986 through Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama. Washington, for some reason, does not want to enforce the Constitution. It has to be about votes.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Princess Doreen

And your solution to the ever mounting problem is?

This is not a Democrat or Republican problem. It's been going on since 1986 through Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama. Washington, for some reason, does not want to enforce the Constitution. It has to be about votes.

Regarding immigration reform, which has little to do with Presidents and much to do with Congress and the Senate, I'll continue to support aggressive immigration reform. You are right, they have avoided this subject at all costs the past 20 years.

Regarding Presidents, I voted for Obama, and I guarantee I'll vote for him again in 2012.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Princess Doreen

And your solution to the ever mounting problem is?

This is not a Democrat or Republican problem. It's been going on since 1986 through Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama. Washington, for some reason, does not want to enforce the Constitution. It has to be about votes.

Of course its about the votes. What else could it be. This has been an ongoing problem for years now. Arizona has said the hell with whoever is in the White House and decided to take matters into thier own hands. Its my hope that Texas isnt far behind in dealing with these taxpayers burden. I hope the sheriff that said he is not going to enforce this law gets a swift kick in the @ss out of office.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

just moving this forward. i didn't get an answer from anyone on why the feds, mexico, or anyone else should be up in arms about this law. it wasn't a rhetorical question-i really want to know why this is a bad law, or misinformed, etc.

See this:

Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.


Now, how do you make sure that cops will follow this part? .

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

See this:

Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.


Now, how do you make sure that cops will follow this part? .

the arizona legislature is working on passing a rehabilitation bill removing the word "solely".

they know as worded it wouldn't get past even this supreme court.

ignoring the actual issue of immigration, the only thing dem's could have asked in terms of electoral politics is that arizona waited until september to pass this bill.

this doesn't play into the republican narrative for november at all. they already have the pissed off white folk vote nailed down. the last thing they needed was doofus arizona legislator's handing brown people another reason to go out and vote again.

i still think hispanics could be an important part of the republican base if they'd just get out of the habit of constantly reminding them how much they're not wanted.

[GenuineRisk]

[Riot]

All the good citizens of Arizona are rushing around making copies of their birth certificates and passports, eager to comply with this new law, having to prove their citizenship upon demand from a local cop when they get stopped for speeding.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

See this:

Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.


Now, how do you make sure that cops will follow this part? .

Reminds me of the seatbelt law in NY. When they wanted it passed, they promised the cops wouldn't pull anyone over just for not wearing a seatbelt. HAR! You will get pulled over just for not wearing a seatbelt, in fact, you will get pulled over for no reason at all if the cops feel like pulling you over. As for the jobs Americans won't do... cut off welfare from some of the scammers in this country and you will be surprised at the jobs they will do. Unfortunately (fortunately?) most of the illegals coming into this country for work bring something with them that seems to be in short supply here. It's called "work ethic".

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

Reminds me of the seatbelt law in NY. When they wanted it passed, they promised the cops wouldn't pull anyone over just for not wearing a seatbelt. HAR! You will get pulled over just for not wearing a seatbelt, in fact, you will get pulled over for no reason at all if the cops feel like pulling you over. As for the jobs Americans won't do... cut off welfare from some of the scammers in this country and you will be surprised at the jobs they will do. Unfortunately (fortunately?) most of the illegals coming into this country for work bring something with them that seems to be in short supply here. It's called "work ethic".

great post man.