Over/Under on Dominguez wins today

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by gales0678

todd is the best trainer in the game and he gets it on here for his failure in these big races , why am i not allowed to point out a fact that ramon has failed to menace on the big days

Originally Posted by gales0678

why is ok to bash pletcher for his failure to date in these races and ramon gets off scott free

A trainer, and if you're citing Pletcher specifically, gets DOZENS of high quality horses to train toward Triple Crown and Breeders' Cup races. DOZENS AND DOZENS of the best bred and most expensive horses... So his record in TC/BC races is far more suspect in a discussion like this than a jockey who gets exactly ONE mount, maybe, in any of the available races you're talking about. You do understand that nuance?

[Kasept]

Also, I forgot to add above that $2 ATB wagers on Dominguez' 24 Breeders' Cup mounts would cost $144.00 and return $236.60.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Also, I forgot to add above that $2 ATB wagers on Dominguez' 24 Breeders' Cup mounts would cost $144.00 and return $236.60.

steve when do you bet show?

stop this nonsense

he's 1 for 38 to date , he is the best jockey in the country to many on here

he better do better than 1 for 38 in the next 38 mounts do you not agree?

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Kasept

A trainer, and if you're citing Pletcher specifically, gets DOZENS of high quality horses to train toward Triple Crown and Breeders' Cup races. DOZENS AND DOZENS of the best bred and most expensive horses... So his record in TC/BC races is far more suspect in a discussion like this than a jockey who gets exactly ONE mount, maybe, in any of the available races you're talking about. You do understand that nuance?

todd will have have more chances of course , he had 5 in 1 year , ramon can only ride 1

do you think todd wanted to run every horse in the derby that he entered ?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Kasept

A trainer, and if you're citing Pletcher specifically, gets DOZENS of high quality horses to train toward Triple Crown and Breeders' Cup races. DOZENS AND DOZENS of the best bred and most expensive horses... So his record in TC/BC races is far more suspect in a discussion like this than a jockey who gets exactly ONE mount, maybe, in any of the available races you're talking about. You do understand that nuance?

marty i like you but wtf whats the argument.. and todd does not do well in the derby.he takes everyones
old derby horses and turns them into multiple stakes winners..

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

marty i like you but wtf whats the argument..

here is what i am saying

todd is the best trainer in the country over the last 10 yrs that is a fact - he wins the most $ , wins the most races , wins the most training titles

he gets bashed on here for not doing it eneough in tc races and on bc day - fairly so , he has underperformed on those days

people on here believe that ramon is the best jockey in the country ,

shouldn't the best jock in the county be better than 1 for 38 on the big days?


why is ok for todd to be bashed for being 1 for 70 or whatever in the tc and 3 for whatever in the bc and ramon's record can't be bashed - i don't get it matt

both ramon and todd have a long way to go in their careers before the finals numbers are done - why not let it play out and see what happens , mabye they will both end up with multiple tc wins and multiple bc wins

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by gales0678

here is what i am saying

todd is the best trainer in the country over the last 10 yrs that is a fact - he wins the most $ , wins the most races , wins the most training titles

he gets bashed on here for not doing it eneough in tc races and on bc day - fairly so , he has underperformed on those days

people on here believe that ramon is the best jockey in the country ,

shouldn't the best jock in the county be better than 1 for 38 on the big days?


why is ok for todd to be bashed for being 1 for 70 or whatever in the tc and 3 for whatever in the bc and ramon's record can't be bashed - i don't get it matt
both ramon and todd have a long way to go in their careers before the finals numbers are done - why not let it play out and see what happens , mabye they will both end up with multiple tc wins and multiple bc wins

You like baseball analogies, here's one. Pletcher is like the Yankees (Brian Cashman). He's considered one of the best trainers in the game. He has all this high priced talent every year and unless he wins a couple of the huge races, then some people think he has been a dissapointment. There have been times when Pletcher has had 20% of the derby field and still hasn't hit the board. He probably deserves some of the grief he gets.

As far as Ramon goes, you see the list of horses he ridden. It seems like he's done very well with some not so live horses. He's coming into his own and you would think that he will soon be (if he's not already) considered in that top crop of jockeys that trainers fight for. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think he's on the verge of exploding. And the numbers you bring up are unfair and unjust and don't tell the real story.

[docicu3]

Is it really snowing at Aqu today as the website says?

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

You like baseball analogies, here's one. Pletcher is like the Yankees (Brian Cashman). He's considered one of the best trainers in the game. He has all this high priced talent every year and unless he wins a couple of the huge races, then some people think he has been a dissapointment. There have been times when Pletcher has had 20% of the derby field and still hasn't hit the board. He probably deserves some of the grief he gets.

As far as Ramon goes, you see the list of horses he ridden. It seems like he's done very well with some not so live horses. He's coming into his own and you would think that he will soon be (if he's not already) considered in that top crop of jockeys that trainers fight for. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think he's on the verge of exploding. And the numbers you bring up are unfair and unjust and don't tell the real story.

matt just 1 question that is out there that you have not answered

we know cashman is the gm but do you really believe he has final decision on all major moves in the organization - i don't (randy johnson et al)

now to my question that no one here has answered , do you think todd wanted to run every one of those starters in the derby? do you think he had a choice on each horse ?

i don't think he wanted to run certain horses in those big races , thus in my opinion i think it's unjust and unfair for people here to bash his record to the extent that they do because they don't know what the owners wanted to do

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by gales0678

matt just 1 question that is out there that you have not answered

we know cashman is the gm but do you really believe he has final decision on all major moves in the organization - i don't (randy johnson et al)

now to my question that no one here has answered , do you think todd wanted to run every one of those starters in the derby? do you think he had a choice on each horse ?

i don't think he wanted to run certain horses in those big races , thus in my opinion i think it's unjust and unfair for people here to bash his record to the extent that they do because they don't know what the owners wanted to do

I agree that a couple of those Pletcher horses were only there becuase the owners wanted them there and you would think Todd probably thought that they were in over there heads. But that being said, they did need to have the earnings to get there so they did earn their way into the gates.
But the arguement you make isn't about Pletcher, it's about Dominguez.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I agree that a couple of those Pletcher horses were only there becuase the owners wanted them there and you would think Todd probably thought that they were in over there heads. But that being said, they did need to have the earnings to get there so they did earn their way into the gates.
But the arguement you make isn't about Pletcher, it's about Dominguez.

ramon deserves more time , i will give you that

and what is the % of pletcher starters that start in the bc or tc races vs his total starters what is it ?? u still haven't put the % up

do you think it's fair for him to get bashed not only on here but in the media on what i will say is proably less than 5 % of his total starters , isn't that cherry picking as well?

who was going to beat smarty jones, who was going ot beat barbaro , was it todd's fault that the jocks gave street sense a perfect rail trip for borel to take for the best horse in the race , this arguemnt can go on and on

if you want to continue send me a PM , i'm done on this topic

ramon is a very good jockey , i'll leave it at that

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by gales0678

matt just 1 question that is out there that you have not answered

we know cashman is the gm but do you really believe he has final decision on all major moves in the organization - i don't (randy johnson et al)

now to my question that no one here has answered , do you think todd wanted to run every one of those starters in the derby? do you think he had a choice on each horse ?

i don't think he wanted to run certain horses in those big races , thus in my opinion i think it's unjust and unfair for people here to bash his record to the extent that they do because they don't know what the owners wanted to do

Yes, you are probably correct that some of these entries were "owner decisions," but the reason a lot of people question Pletcher's big race record is that his stable has not performed the same on these days when the horses are more closely surveilled than it does the rest of the year. For that reason, your analogy between Pletcher and Dominguez is completely flawed.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Yes, you are probably correct that some of these entries were "owner decisions," but the reason a lot of people question Pletcher's big race record is that his stable has not performed the same on these days when the horses are more closely surveilled than it does the rest of the year. For that reason, your analogy between Pletcher and Dominquez is completely flawed.

so you mean to tell me they aren't watching on oaks day or grade 1 days in ny when it's not belmont day ,or florida derby day at GP is that what you are trying to say

the cops are really only out at the BC and 3 TC races - 4 days a year? , the rest of the time they are there but just sleeping like the cop in the parking lot that's supposed to be on duty , is it that simple???

[Antitrust32]

I hope Ramon wins the triple crown this year!

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

didnt he win multiple jock titles in ny including the spa? his big race win perc has more to do with his agent then his ability..and todd is not worried about anything..he sleeps well on stacks of hundos.........

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

didnt he win multiple jock titles in ny including the spa? his big race win perc has more to do with his agent then his ability..and todd is not worried about anything..he sleeps well on stacks of hundos.........

agree , agree , agreee

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I hope Ramon wins the triple crown this year!

LOL....I hope he at least does well during the RTR, he's one of my two jockeys.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I hope Ramon wins the triple crown this year!

on a pletcher horse i hope