DerbyDreamer.com - Vinery Fantasy Game

[mbahadur]

Originally Posted by philcski

This is a great point- please let them know ASAP

I am just not sure what time it was exactly when my horses were activated. I was assuming the game would leave a time stamp like the RTTR game. I think the Bejarano race went off at 5:35pm but the Velazquez race went off before 5:00pm. I just remember going to watch the 6th feature race at Santa Anita after I activated my stable and the Bejarano race (the 4th) was long over. I don't think my stable reflects Bejarano's performance in the 6th and 7th races yet (there must be a time lag but contestants cannot create winning stables during this time lag). However, I did send them an e-mail about the time lag asking if there is protection built into the game to prevent stables from being created and earning points for races that have already run.

I am only buying one stable for the first month until I have confidence in this game. For $10K and Derby tickets, I would think they would review and reveal the winning stables at the end of the month.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by mbahadur

I am just not sure what time it was exactly when my horses were activated. I was assuming the game would leave a time stamp like the RTTR game. I think the Bejarano race went off at 5:35pm but the Velazquez race went off before 5:00pm. I just remember going to watch the 6th feature race at Santa Anita after I activated my stable and the Bejarano race (the 4th) was long over. I don't think my stable reflects Bejarano's performance in the 6th and 7th races yet (there must be a time lag but contestants cannot create winning stables during this time lag). However, I did send them an e-mail about the time lag asking if there is protection built into the game to prevent stables from being created and earning points for races that have already run.

I am only buying one stable for the first month until I have confidence in this game. For $10K and Derby tickets, I would think they would review and reveal the winning stables at the end of the month.

Me too- I would like to be able to see what horses people have in their stable in real time. Someone has 1,456 points already. I'd like to know what horses he chose because that's basically impossible with the scores shown on the horse results page...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by philcski

Me too- I would like to be able to see what horses people have in their stable in real time. Someone has 1,456 points already. I'd like to know what horses he chose because that's basically impossible with the scores shown on the horse results page...

Maybe he/she has a bunch of imaginary friends they referred to the contest?

[mbahadur]

Originally Posted by mbahadur

However, I did send them an e-mail about the time lag asking if there is protection built into the game to prevent stables from being created and earning points for races that have already run.

Here is their response. They must be making adjustments on the fly as I noticed I have went from 17 points to 12 points from yesterday to today (not sure where as 1 Velazquez race got me 12 points and 3 Bejarano races got me -5,+15,-5 and the race that Bejarano won was after I activated my jockeys). Maybe they took alway all my Bejarano points from yesterday as he got me 5 total points I highly doubt these small point changes will make or break me in the contest.

Hello,

Great observation. Yes, there is protection. Every result carries a time and new contestants will not get points if they sign up after this time. We experienced a case which made us aware of the scenario you described, but the point standings have been corrected.

Regards,

Finn
DerbyDreamer.com

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Without being able to view stables or having a timestamp like they do at TVG Fantasy .... it would be incredibly easy for a person with keys (an admin) to cheat. and win under friends names.

Whoever Vinery paid to do the admin of that contest ... I hope they're either the worlds most honest person or people or just plain dumb beyond belief ... because they have the power to change things after the fact with 100% deniability.

Great point... right now I'm glad I only paid for 1 entry until they work out the kinks. Could be a fun contest but I'm skeptical at the moment for the reasons I stated before.

Originally Posted by mbahadur

Here is their response. They must be making adjustments on the fly as I noticed I have went from 17 points to 12 points from yesterday to today (not sure where as 1 Velazquez race got me 12 points and 3 Bejarano races got me -5,+15,-5 and the race that Bejarano won was after I activated my jockeys). Maybe they took alway all my Bejarano points from yesterday as he got me 5 total points I highly doubt these small point changes will make or break me in the contest.

Hello,

Great observation. Yes, there is protection. Every result carries a time and new contestants will not get points if they sign up after this time. We experienced a case which made us aware of the scenario you described, but the point standings have been corrected.

Regards,

Finn
DerbyDreamer.com

Thanks for posting this and writing to them. I'm still skeptical of the points earned by the leaders to date. There's only been a few eligible horses to even race... as for Sightseek's point about referrals, the maximum per period is 250 points which still doesn't make up for the difference.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by philcski

Great point... right now I'm glad I only paid for 1 entry until they work out the kinks. Could be a fun contest but I'm skeptical at the moment for the reasons I stated before.

I bought 8 entries .. I might have bought 40 or 50 if I wasn't highly skeptical about a lot of things.

I can tell you this ... if I had keys and Vinery made me one of the admins .. I think I could win the contest 36 times in 36 months with only a single different entry each month ... and do so in such a subtle fashion that wrong doing would never be detected.

My biggest worry would have been that I don't have a combined total of 36 different friends and family memebers that share a different last name.

They should have copied TVG's fantasy contest and used time stamps and made all stables visable. The beauty of TVG's is that once the game starts - you know every entry is on a level playing field and it's 100% legit.

[mbahadur]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

They should have copied TVG's fantasy contest and used time stamps and made all stables visable. The beauty of TVG's is that once the game starts - you know every entry is on a level playing field and it's 100% legit.

TVG took convincing to bring their fantasy contest back as it appeared they had funding issues since it was a free contest. I have wrote to them about making their contest pay to play. Let's hope they see the Derbydreamer concept and how many entries were purchased and decide to make it pay to play. I think all of us who experienced the TVG Fantasy contest like their format and programming of their contest so much better.

If the Derbydreamer contest does not go off well and people are skeptical in its first month, they will be hard pressed to get people to buy stables for future months. And you will have to buy stables in future months to have a chance at winning, especially when they start adding horses to the available draft pool and the Kentucky Derby and Grade 1 Triple Crown races start up. Their selling point featured in their commercials about a $1 per month is a joke and I can't imagine any stable purchased now having a chance come May (unless maybe if you are one of the admins).

Maybe Steve Byk can try to get someone from Vinery on ATR to discuss the game and ease everyone's skepticism. There have to be a number of DT handicappers who bought Derbydreamer stables -- of course, the cost of purchasing a Derbydreamer stable is nothing compared to what some of us wager in a week.

[mbahadur]

I am about 2,000 points behind the leader. I still have Christina Daae, D'Funnybone, Eskendereya and/or Rule, Tuscan Evening, and Zenyatta left to run in March (assuming they all stay healthy and Christina Daae runs on 3/20 or 3/27). I wonder how many stables in front of me have both Eskendereya and Rule and whether Pletcher's decision of who runs in the Florida Derby will determine who wins the March contest. DrugS looks like he is about 1,000 ahead of me since he probably had Jeranimo (good call on his 4th place finish in a 14-horse Grade 1 field).

Looks like there are some identical stables out there among the leaders where Referral points may make a difference. Also, many of the leaders have multiple stables at the top of the standings -- probably would not be in the best interest of the game if the same person won more than one prize.

I couldn't pull the trigger on Crisp in my TVG Fantasy stable, so I am well behind the leaders there. I guess I just did not see Blind Luck losing and Crisp having a shot at 60 points.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by mbahadur

I wonder how many stables in front of me have both Eskendereya and Rule and whether Pletcher's decision of who runs in the Florida Derby will determine who wins the March contest.

Yep. Who Pletcher runs in the Fla Derby will pretty much have a huge impact on things.

I had Crisp in 7 of 8 stables - and she was only used in 127 stables before the race and 128 after the race. I had Misremembered in 7 different stables and he was used on just 245.

If a horse like Ice Box (in just 39 stables) or Pulsion (in just 41) somehow wins the Fla Derby ... and I don't finish in the top 3 ... I will feel like I spent $86 betting on a WWF wrestling match.

[philcski]

I'm still not convinced this contest is kosher. Everything has scored for me OK, but that's not the issue. The leader currently has 10,672 points- which sounded awfully high to me given that a fair number of horses aren't even available for selection (for example, the top two finishers in the Kilroe.) I looked at the stakes today to determine the maximum available points to date (assuming that allowance/claiming results are really irrelevant given the point structure):

Big Cap- G1
misremembered 2500
jeranimo 1000

SA Oaks- G1
crisp 2500
blind luck 1500
cozie rosie 500

Sham- G3
alphies 500
setsuko 400
the program 300

Palm Beach- G3
paddy 500
dean's 400
asphalt 200
bim bam 100

Herecomesthebride- G3
---

Gotham- G3
awesome act 500
nacho friend 300
turf melody 200
shrimp dancer 100

Toboggan- G3
custom for carlos 400

Azeri- G3
---

Razorback- G3
gone astray 300

Cappy
golden ghost 225

Pasadena
mmfm 375
macias 300
alfarabi 225
runaway bandido 75

gentilly
heavenville 300

So given these results, the MAXIMUM point value for 12 horses today would have been 10,575-
Misremembered 2500
Crisp 2500
Blind Luck 1500
Jeranimo 1000
Alphies 500
Awesome Act 500
Cozie Rosie 500
Paddy O' 500
Setsuko 400
Dean's Kitten 400
Custom for Carlos 400
Make Music for Me 375

In essence, he would have had to use ALL of his horses today, and not only that but select the absolute best possible outcome (or very close to it, given the maximum jockey points to date is about 300.) It seems statistically unlikely that someone would (a) actually use all of their horses on the first day, and (b) have the correct outcome with it.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Not only that .... but Crisp was added to a stable right after her Gr 1 win .. yet no other horse on page #1 of the most commonly selected horses saw a +1 bump.

If you remember that a new stable must add 18 horses ...That is as shady as hell. Even if someone added Crisp after her win .. don't they have to take 17 other horses with her?