Republican Senator in Massachusetts?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you are in favor of National ID cards proving citizenship? And when you present at the ER with crushing chest pain, the doctors should hold off on starting your IV, hooking you up to ECG, giving you nitroglycerin, and correcting any arrhythmia until you can prove you're an American citizen?

If that's what it takes.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

If that's what it takes.

i think that's a shame. i'm all in favor of getting the budget righted...but we're all human beings. you really think people should be left to die for the sake of the almighty dollar?? if they can't prove they can pay the bill, they're to be ignored? somehow, if you were the one gasping in pain and needing care, i really think your thoughts on this would change.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think that's a shame. i'm all in favor of getting the budget righted...but we're all human beings. you really think people should be left to die for the sake of the almighty dollar?? if they can't prove they can pay the bill, they're to be ignored? somehow, if you were the one gasping in pain and needing care, i really think your thoughts on this would change.

Common sense should prevail but what care for everyone does is it doesn't put the responsibility of taking care of oneself on that person. If someone is morbidly obese, that is a lifestyle choice. Why should I have to pay for their Type 2 Diabetes treatment?....Businesses who run promotions to lose weight for money....guess what people lose weight. Put it back on people.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Common sense should prevail but what care for everyone does is it doesn't put the responsibility of taking care of oneself on that person. If someone is morbidly obese, that is a lifestyle choice. Why should I have to pay for their Type 2 Diabetes treatment?....Businesses who run promotions to lose weight for money....guess what people lose weight. Put it back on people.

so is smoking, eating fried foods, red meat, not drinking enough milk, etc, etc. i'm not quite sure what a fat person has to do with your comments about letting people who are dying go without care so you don't have to pay. if everyone was insured, it would be the best way to handle medical treatment. that way, those of us with insurace wouldn't have to pay inflated prices to cover those who don't have insurance and have no way to pay. the question is, what is the best way to get everyone insured? the answer is not to completely lose our empathy towards others, and actually suggest letting people die by refusing treatment to save a buck. that's inhuman. do i think the current proposal in front on congress if the answer? no. but i find it disturbing that anyone would suggest turning a blind eye to someone in distress.
could we all do things to be healthier? sure. but i wouldn't suggest going thru the 'five guys burgers' thread to find people who practice bad eating habits and cancelling their coverage.

[randallscott35]

Danzig, if you came to this country illegally you don't deserve care...

[joeydb]

Everyone paying for their own expenses is the best way to preserve our individual rights. There is no reason to make the government, or any third party for that matter, a participant in the relationship between a patient and their doctor.

When you pay for your own, whether directly or through an insurance company of your choosing, others have nothing to say about it. No one will tell you not to have a hamburger or try to control your life.

But when you choose to go on any form of "public assistance", that's not the case. The difference is that the Democrats want everyone to be a ward of the state so they will shut up and let them "rule".

[Riot]

Everyone paying for their own expenses is the best way to preserve our individual rights.

Which is exactly why I support healthcare reform, Joey. Because that is one of the main goals.

There is no reason to make the government, or any third party for that matter, a participant in the relationship between a patient and their doctor.

I think you do not realize how interactively insurance companies dictate your health care today, via what is "standard and usual", what they will pay for, or not.

Right now, insurance companies dictate, to your doctor (via what they will pay for), which drugs a doctor should use first, which treatments a doctor must try first, etc.

When you pay for your own, whether directly or through an insurance company of your choosing, others have nothing to say about it.

No. Insurance companies define the standard protocols of medical care. If a doctor wants to do something outside the "standard treatment" box, good luck. He can do it, but you'll have to pay for it, and then your insurance company can deny further coverage because your doc went outside the box.

For example, the "wear and tear" sore knee with some cartilage tear, effusion, etc. Insurance companies dictate (pay for) the common medical treatment protocol that steroid injections will be used before glucosaminogycan injections.

If you or your doctor decided a GAG injection would work, and you don't want to get a steroid injected into your knee because there's good medical evidence that it cuts pain, but may hasten degradation of the joint, you can pay for it yourself, as your insurance company will not. I know that it's $700, btw. For an injection I do to a horse or dog for $45.

At the pharmacy, your insurance company will pay for certain brands of drugs, but not others. The pharmacy will substitute (unless your doctor absolutely insists no) the drug your insurance company has approved for the script written. Because the insurance company has made a deal with the drug company, that all their patients will only use "X" antibiotic, not "Y", to keep the cost of "X" down for you.

But when you choose to go on any form of "public assistance", that's not the case. The difference is that the Democrats want everyone to be a ward of the state so they will shut up and let them "rule".

Joey - insurance companies you purchase dictate what they will pay for, just as public assistance dictates why they will pay for. And doctors follow that, if you want your insurance to pay for it. There isn't much difference at all.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Danzig, if you came to this country illegally you don't deserve care...

i see. so, if someone comes here and get sick, we should let them die in the interests of money. that's incredibly cold-hearted. i'd hate to have the job of telling a frantic mother that her child was going to die so we could cover our budget. wow.


hey, i'm aware that illegal aliens can be a drain-but they are not the reason we're in the state we're in-and allowing them to die isn't the solution either. but, they're an easy target to aim at when times are tough.

btw, you are aware that social security takes in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from illegals who never get that money back? that one of the reasons ss remains solvent is the vast amounts of money folks pay in thru fake numbers, with no chance of ever getting it back?

should we do something about illegal aliens? absolutely. our borders evidently are too porous, and can allow people with far more dangerous ideas than using our health care in to this country, with far more tragic results.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i see. so, if someone comes here and get sick, we should let them die in the interests of money. that's incredibly cold-hearted. i'd hate to have the job of telling a frantic mother that her child was going to die so we could cover our budget. wow.


hey, i'm aware that illegal aliens can be a drain-but they are not the reason we're in the state we're in-and allowing them to die isn't the solution either. but, they're an easy target to aim at when times are tough.

btw, you are aware that social security takes in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from illegals who never get that money back? that one of the reasons ss remains solvent is the vast amounts of money folks pay in thru fake numbers, with no chance of ever getting it back?

should we do something about illegal aliens? absolutely. our borders evidently are too porous, and can allow people with far more dangerous ideas than using our health care in to this country, with far more tragic results.

I can't even resond to something so ridiculous as this post. So many things wrong with it. I give up. Please pick some money off the money tree and spread it around.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i see. so, if someone comes here and get sick, we should let them die in the interests of money. that's incredibly cold-hearted. i'd hate to have the job of telling a frantic mother that her child was going to die so we could cover our budget. wow.


hey, i'm aware that illegal aliens can be a drain-but they are not the reason we're in the state we're in-and allowing them to die isn't the solution either. but, they're an easy target to aim at when times are tough.

btw, you are aware that social security takes in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from illegals who never get that money back? that one of the reasons ss remains solvent is the vast amounts of money folks pay in thru fake numbers, with no chance of ever getting it back?

should we do something about illegal aliens? absolutely. our borders evidently are too porous, and can allow people with far more dangerous ideas than using our health care in to this country, with far more tragic results.

I'm not illegal but that statement is true for me too.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i see. so, if someone comes here and get sick, we should let them die in the interests of money. that's incredibly cold-hearted. i'd hate to have the job of telling a frantic mother that her child was going to die so we could cover our budget. wow.


hey, i'm aware that illegal aliens can be a drain-but they are not the reason we're in the state we're in-and allowing them to die isn't the solution either. but, they're an easy target to aim at when times are tough.

btw, you are aware that social security takes in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from illegals who never get that money back? that one of the reasons ss remains solvent is the vast amounts of money folks pay in thru fake numbers, with no chance of ever getting it back?

should we do something about illegal aliens? absolutely. our borders evidently are too porous, and can allow people with far more dangerous ideas than using our health care in to this country, with far more tragic results.

The first word in "illegal aliens" is "illegal". They are breaking the law coming here. Frankly, it's the liberal attitude over the years that is responsible for encouraging this. "Just get to America...they pay for everything."

It's time for the decision to break our laws to carry risk and consequences. Maybe eventually the advice from one would-be illegal to another will be more like, "Don't risk it. If you're an illegal alien in America, not only will they lock you up and deport you, but you won't be able to get medical care since you need to be a citizen at their hospitals."

Sure, people from other countries would like to be here since we have more opportunity and freedom than the rest of the world. But the way to do that is to legally apply and be accepted by the official departments regulating that. We won't continue to have freedoms if we bankrupt ourselves looking after other people who, since illegal, should not be here in the first place.

Use that bleeding heart attitude for the citizens first. Charity begins at home.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i see. so, if someone comes here and get sick, we should let them die in the interests of money. that's incredibly cold-hearted. i'd hate to have the job of telling a frantic mother that her child was going to die so we could cover our budget. wow.


hey, i'm aware that illegal aliens can be a drain-but they are not the reason we're in the state we're in-and allowing them to die isn't the solution either. but, they're an easy target to aim at when times are tough.

btw, you are aware that social security takes in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from illegals who never get that money back? that one of the reasons ss remains solvent is the vast amounts of money folks pay in thru fake numbers, with no chance of ever getting it back?

should we do something about illegal aliens? absolutely. our borders evidently are too porous, and can allow people with far more dangerous ideas than using our health care in to this country, with far more tragic results.

Great post. I'm all about supporting some kind of immigration reform and finding a better way to police and manage who comes and goes. That said, even if someone is here illegally, letting them die on the steps of our hospitals even though we can save them, just to let them die on principle is disgusting.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I agree Nascar. If people want to be here, they need to speak american!

Lol.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Danzig, if you came to this country illegally you don't deserve care...

being here illegally shouldn't be a death sentence either. tough punishment for that crime.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so is smoking, eating fried foods, red meat, not drinking enough milk, etc, etc. i'm not quite sure what a fat person has to do with your comments about letting people who are dying go without care so you don't have to pay. if everyone was insured, it would be the best way to handle medical treatment. that way, those of us with insurace wouldn't have to pay inflated prices to cover those who don't have insurance and have no way to pay. the question is, what is the best way to get everyone insured? the answer is not to completely lose our empathy towards others, and actually suggest letting people die by refusing treatment to save a buck. that's inhuman. do i think the current proposal in front on congress if the answer? no. but i find it disturbing that anyone would suggest turning a blind eye to someone in distress.
could we all do things to be healthier? sure. but i wouldn't suggest going thru the 'five guys burgers' thread to find people who practice bad eating habits and cancelling their coverage.

Thank YOU for that!

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so is smoking, eating fried foods, red meat, not drinking enough milk, etc, etc. i'm not quite sure what a fat person has to do with your comments about letting people who are dying go without care so you don't have to pay. if everyone was insured, it would be the best way to handle medical treatment. that way, those of us with insurace wouldn't have to pay inflated prices to cover those who don't have insurance and have no way to pay. the question is, what is the best way to get everyone insured? the answer is not to completely lose our empathy towards others, and actually suggest letting people die by refusing treatment to save a buck. that's inhuman. do i think the current proposal in front on congress if the answer? no. but i find it disturbing that anyone would suggest turning a blind eye to someone in distress.
could we all do things to be healthier? sure. but i wouldn't suggest going thru the 'five guys burgers' thread to find people who practice bad eating habits and cancelling their coverage.

just as with auto insurance riskier clients (based mainly on driving history and age) pay more. Asking me to subsidize someone for bad health habits or for that matter me asking someone else to subsidize say my future liver damage is not fair. Then for 5 years collecting premiums before any coverage is started is PONZI-like. How many would go for Blue Cross marketing a plan where for five years you pay into to get insurance on your insurance in that it would be subsidized if it got too expensive to pay once the five years w/no coverage is completed. Of course still not given a quote on what the ultimate cost will be.

As far as illegals are concerned I'd think with the horrible, expensive health care system in the U.S. they'd go home for care or at least to Cuba.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

If that's what it takes.

I don't want that government intrusion in my life.

I already have to prove what I'm doing here to immigration sometimes when I'm just driving through New Mexico, Arizona near the southern border.

[joeydb]

Not government ID cards. Useless, and they can be forged (and will be).

A fingerprint database linked to the one already used for "Social Security Numbers". That's a nonintrusive answer, and quite safe from identity theft concerns. Not many people would (or can) alter their fingerprints surgically, all ten of them, perfectly. Low risk.

You wouldn't have to carry a card. And the few times this passive device would be used is for security, or at a hospital, airport, buying a gun, proving you're of age at a bar, voting, etc. It would greatly simplify every current need we have for showing identification. And the illegals would have nowhere to hide their status.

It's not active. It would not track your whereabouts, though I suspect they can already do that with cell phones that we all carry.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

A fingerprint database linked to the one already used for "Social Security Numbers". That's a nonintrusive answer, and quite safe from identity theft concerns. Not many people would (or can) alter their fingerprints surgically, all ten of them, perfectly. Low risk.

I agree with the effectiveness and security, but again, I do NOT want to have to prove I am an American citizen as I go about my daily business living in America. I have to do that in some states now.

I do NOT want more government intrusion into my private life.