Republican Senator in Massachusetts?

[Riot]

That's why the plan calls for taxing 'Cadilac policies'?

Those are policies that not alot of people have, Dell. The ultra-expensive, super high-end, low deductable policies. And the "cadillac" part deals not with "improved care" (more care, better care) rather just giving the same care as other policies for a lower deductable type of thing, improve coverage for age, etc.

I'm not in favor of that, btw. But the other major way to pay, public option, was eliminated in the Senate bill.

Give me a break, healtcare reform has nothing to do with either cost containment or improvement and everything to do with control as in who gets what care and what they will pay for it. Ten years from now I expect people to be asking 'blackmarket bypass' or 'regular'?

Yeah, "who gets what" care is important - all people should get treated for their diabetes on a regular basis, rather than just getting treatment in the ER when they need an amputation or they go ketoacidotic.

And yes, "what they will pay for it" - cost containment is a huge deal. The problem is the Senate bill was stripped down to fairly useless crap. The House bill is better.

Your last sentence about bypasses makes no sense at all, c'mon. There is healthcare rationing now in this country, that's for sure. The point is to eliminate it. Not start it up.

As an aside, there have been a couple reports from Haiti, people waking up post-surgery having had limbs amputated - and getting immediately upset asking "but how will I pay for it, I have no money"? They didn't seek care, they didn't expect to get medical care, as they didn't have money and that's the way it works there. There is little "free ER' in Haiti for the poor.

But we Americans, and French, and British, Canadians, etc - we don't let people die just because they don't have money. Well, most of us feel that way.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Your last sentence about bypasses makes no sense at all, c'mon. There is healthcare rationing now in this country, that's for sure. The point is to eliminate it. Not start it up.
.

so make a healthy person subsidize the insurance of a un-healthy or non-productive citizen so both can get into the same line for care? yea that sounds fair and a solution to eliminate it. BTW since you seem to be so familiar w/the bill what happens to the illegal who shows up at the ER since he's not included in the bill?

[Riot]

so make a healthy person subsidize the insurance of a un-healthy or non-productive citizen so both can get into the same line for care?

Dell, we do that now - if you don't have insurance, and go to the doctor or ER, you pay premium high price, your price is higher than those with insurance, and that covers the shortfall from everyone else. The prices set by the ER and docs are set to cover those patients without insurance reimbursement. The costs of everyone paying for the non-covered are now built into the system.

I would rather the low-income person buy inexpensive coverage themselves, and pay for it themselves, and get them off Medicaid, rather than have me subsidize them via Medicaid taxes and increased costs for me because they don't have insurance.

yea that sounds fair and a solution to eliminate it. BTW since you seem to be so familiar w/the bill what happens to the illegal who shows up at the ER since he's not included in the bill?

The exact same thing that happens now. He gets emergency only minimal overage and we pay for it. There is no provision for someone - including you or I - to have to show proof of American citizenship prior to receiving emergency medical treatment. We don't have to do that now, and we won't in the future.

The bills say specifically that illegal immigrants will NOT be able to buy into the government insurance pools (if any pools remains in the final bill, which I doubt). I don't know how they would check that, probably the very same way insurance companies now check for illegal aliens when those illegal aliens try and buy private insurance policies.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Dell, we do that now - if you don't have insurance, and go to the doctor or ER, you pay premium high price, your price is higher than those with insurance, and that covers the shortfall from everyone else. The prices set by the ER and docs are set to cover those patients without insurance reimbursement. The costs of everyone paying for the non-covered are now built into the system.

I would rather the low-income person buy inexpensive coverage themselves, and pay for it themselves, and get them off Medicaid, rather than have me subsidize them via Medicaid taxes and increased costs for me because they don't have insurance.



The exact same thing that happens now. He gets emergency only minimal overage and we pay for it. There is no provision for someone - including you or I - to have to show proof of American citizenship prior to receiving emergency medical treatment. We don't have to do that now, and we won't in the future.

The bills say specifically that illegal immigrants will NOT be able to buy into the government insurance pools (if any pools remains in the final bill, which I doubt). I don't know how they would check that, probably the very same way insurance companies now check for illegal aliens when those illegal aliens try and buy private insurance policies.

so we're going to force legals to pay for insurance but illegals remain the same (you know go they go to the emergency room and we pay for it). That's worse than the health conscious paying for the 'don't give a crap' crowd.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Riot

Dell, we do that now - if you don't have insurance, and go to the doctor or ER, you pay premium high price, your price is higher than those with insurance, and that covers the shortfall from everyone else. The prices set by the ER and docs are set to cover those patients without insurance reimbursement. The costs of everyone paying for the non-covered are now built into the system.

I would rather the low-income person buy inexpensive coverage themselves, and pay for it themselves, and get them off Medicaid, rather than have me subsidize them via Medicaid taxes and increased costs for me because they don't have insurance.



The exact same thing that happens now. He gets emergency only minimal overage and we pay for it. There is no provision for someone - including you or I - to have to show proof of American citizenship prior to receiving emergency medical treatment. We don't have to do that now, and we won't in the future.

The bills say specifically that illegal immigrants will NOT be able to buy into the government insurance pools (if any pools remains in the final bill, which I doubt). I don't know how they would check that, probably the very same way insurance companies now check for illegal aliens when those illegal aliens try and buy private insurance policies.

We shouldn't pay for it. Problem solved. No care.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

We shouldn't pay for it. Problem solved. No care.

But the point is that American citizens pay for the health care procedures of the uninsured RIGHT NOW. The current system is a system where people without coverage go to the emergency room and receive treatment that people with coverage pay for. That is the way it currently works.

I take it you want to fundamentally change the current system so that if uninsured people go to the emergency room they simply get kicked out. That's fine if that is your opinion, but I seriously doubt if you will even get many Republicans to go to voters with that agenda.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

We shouldn't pay for it. Problem solved. No care.

So you are in favor of National ID cards proving citizenship? And when you present at the ER with crushing chest pain, the doctors should hold off on starting your IV, hooking you up to ECG, giving you nitroglycerin, and correcting any arrhythmia until you can prove you're an American citizen?

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you are in favor of National ID cards proving citizenship? And when you present at the ER with crushing chest pain, the doctors should hold off on starting your IV, hooking you up to ECG, giving you nitroglycerin, and correcting any arrhythmia until you can prove you're an American citizen?

I am. F these worthless pieces of crap illegals. If they want to come to this country legally and learn our lanuage no problem. Its very discouraging seeing these illegals and so called American citizens who are supposedly legal citizens burning the American flag. I had a friend email a pic showing the American flag below another countries' flag. Nice way to respect this great country of ours, im sure most the students families in the picture were probably on state aid or welfare maybe even getting cheap housing. This is the way they thank our country for giving them free handouts. Not in my country. Hell no!!!!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

I am. F these worthless pieces of crap illegals. If they want to come to this country legally and learn our lanuage no problem. Its very discouraging seeing these illegals and so called American citizens who are supposedly legal citizens burning the American flag. I had a friend email a pic showing the American flag below another countries' flag. Nice way to respect this great country of ours, im sure most the students families in the picture were probably on state aid or welfare maybe even getting cheap housing. This is the way they thank our country for giving them free handouts. Not in my country. Hell no!!!!

In my country, we save people's lives first - everybody's life - then later worry about if they are some illegal Canadian.

You might call Nick Nicholson at Keeneland - they always have other countries flags the same height as the American flag on their flagpoles, and that poor flag etiquette has always bothered me.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

I am. F these worthless pieces of crap illegals. If they want to come to this country legally and learn our lanuage no problem. Its very discouraging seeing these illegals and so called American citizens who are supposedly legal citizens burning the American flag. I had a friend email a pic showing the American flag below another countries' flag. Nice way to respect this great country of ours, im sure most the students families in the picture were probably on state aid or welfare maybe even getting cheap housing. This is the way they thank our country for giving them free handouts. Not in my country. Hell no!!!!

I agree Nascar. If people want to be here, they need to speak american!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you are in favor of National ID cards proving citizenship? And when you present at the ER with crushing chest pain, the doctors should hold off on starting your IV, hooking you up to ECG, giving you nitroglycerin, and correcting any arrhythmia until you can prove you're an American citizen?

1) To begin with, Illegals shouldn't be getting in. Period. The people coming here for vacations should have to prove they have healthcare insurance, or stay the fk away.

2) If Illegals get in (with no insurance,) they should be treated in the E.R. only after all the seriously ill citizens are treated.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you are in favor of National ID cards proving citizenship? And when you present at the ER with crushing chest pain, the doctors should hold off on starting your IV, hooking you up to ECG, giving you nitroglycerin, and correcting any arrhythmia until you can prove you're an American citizen?

If that's what it takes.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

If that's what it takes.

i think that's a shame. i'm all in favor of getting the budget righted...but we're all human beings. you really think people should be left to die for the sake of the almighty dollar?? if they can't prove they can pay the bill, they're to be ignored? somehow, if you were the one gasping in pain and needing care, i really think your thoughts on this would change.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

If that's what it takes.

I don't want that government intrusion in my life.

I already have to prove what I'm doing here to immigration sometimes when I'm just driving through New Mexico, Arizona near the southern border.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

so make a healthy person subsidize the insurance of a un-healthy or non-productive citizen so both can get into the same line for care? yea that sounds fair and a solution to eliminate it. BTW since you seem to be so familiar w/the bill what happens to the illegal who shows up at the ER since he's not included in the bill?

More than likely this country will treat the illegals just like this country wont do anything about the illegals and keep on kissing thier ass'. Glad I dont have to deal with this insurance.