Lets hope Halladay is a playoff stud like Lee

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

People forget that Halladay can pitch on 3 days rest (go 3 of 7 in a 7 game series) and we have upgraded our 3rd base.

We HAVE to be the favorites to get back to the series, and we are better off now with Halladay.

Two question marks, back end of the rotation and Brad Lidge. The Phills are a very talented team, but are they going to have to depend on the two headed monster of Martinez/Moyer to give them clutch innings down the stretch? Also which Brett Myers will show up or will he be back in the pen? Then there is Hamels.......Finally, who will be closing games for them come September? If he is anything like he was in his first season then you should feel pretty confident. If he's like the guy from last year, then you might encounter some real problems.
I think they are a very talented team, but I'm really not sure you can state that they are better right now, then teams that won and went to the series the last 2 seasons.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Two question marks, back end of the rotation and Brad Lidge. The Phills are a very talented team, but are they going to have to depend on the two headed monster of Martinez/Moyer to give them clutch innings down the stretch? Also which Brett Myers will show up or will he be back in the pen? Then there is Hamels.......Finally, who will be closing games for them come September? If he is anything like he was in his first season then you should feel pretty confident. If he's like the guy from last year, then you might encounter some real problems.
I think they are a very talented team, but I'm really not sure you can state that they are better right now, then teams that won and went to the series the last 2 seasons.

How the heck are they not better than last year?? Polanco is a upgrade over Feliz and Halladay is a slight upgrade over Lee. Other than that we are exactly the same.. except our bench is a lot BETTER than last year. (our bench went something like 1/32 in the whole post season last year.. not good)

I expect Happ to be freaking awesome again this year.. (glad they traded Drebeck and not Happ)

the 5th starter and some bullpen guys need to be figured out.

I really wouldnt be surprised to see them make another mid season trade for another starter like they've done the past two years.

Lidge sucked last year and we still ran away with the Pennant. He cant possibly be any worse. And if he sucks just as bad and Manuel puts him in as closer in the Post Season AGAIn than Manuel should be fired.

Hamels also cant possibly be any worse than last year. Amaro is really basing this trade around Hamels being 2008 Hamels. I'm not confident but am hopefull.

Myers is not on this team anymore.

Look to see them pick up a Smoltz type guy and another bullpen pitcher who can close if needed.

Also we need to sign Chan Ho Park and Durbin.. big time.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

How the heck are they not better than last year?? Polanco is a upgrade over Feliz and Halladay is a slight upgrade over Lee. Other than that we are exactly the same.. except our bench is a lot BETTER than last year. (our bench went something like 1/32 in the whole post season last year.. not good)

I expect Happ to be freaking awesome again this year.. (glad they traded Drebeck and not Happ)

the 5th starter and some bullpen guys need to be figured out.

I really wouldnt be surprised to see them make another mid season trade for another starter like they've done the past two years.

Lidge sucked last year and we still ran away with the Pennant. He cant possibly be any worse. And if he sucks just as bad and Manuel puts him in as closer in the Post Season AGAIn than Manuel should be fired.

Hamels also cant possibly be any worse than last year. Amaro is really basing this trade around Hamels being 2008 Hamels. I'm not confident but am hopefull.

Myers is not on this team anymore.

Look to see them pick up a Smoltz type guy and another bullpen pitcher who can close if needed.

Also we need to sign Chan Ho Park and Durbin.. big time.

Granted Polonco is an upgrade. Halladay is also an upgrade, but you already had a guy in that spot who was comparable (Halladay is better but Lee was no slouch, either way you had a #1 stud/ace).
I agree with you about Happ, he could turn out to be a good one.
But I just think you are basing the rest on the fact that they came close to winning it again last year, with several of the guys just having awful seasons. So you automatically think that they will be a better team this year because they can't play any worse than they did last season. But what if those guys regress again?
I'm not saying that they aren't a good team, but there are obvious question marks reguarding their pitching that warrents consideration.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Granted Polonco is an upgrade. Halladay is also an upgrade, but you already had a guy in that spot who was comparable (Halladay is better but Lee was no slouch, either way you had a #1 stud/ace).
I agree with you about Happ, he could turn out to be a good one.
But I just think you are basing the rest on the fact that they came close to winning it again last year, with several of the guys just having awful seasons. So you automatically think that they will be a better team this year because they can't play any worse than they did last season. But what if those guys regress again?
I'm not saying that they aren't a good team, but there are obvious question marks reguarding their pitching that warrents consideration.

Can Lidge and Hamels possibly regress any further? I guess Lidge could blow every save he's involved in.. but you really cant get any worse than those two did given their talent.

Hamels pitched tons of innings in 2008, he won the WS MVP and then was involved in a lot of extra activites on the off season. He admitted he wasnt in shape when spring training started AND he was nagged with injuries all year. He may not be the 2008 Hamels, but he WILL be better than 2009 Hamels this upcoming year.

We will be picking up more pitchers before the season starts, and we have some guys on our Farm that could do okay in the pen.

I am basing my statement of us being better on the fact that our lineup is better than last year, our bench is better than last year, and our #1 pitcher is better than last year. Our 2-5 pitching and pen will end up being at least equal but most likely better than last year.


Also, I was really responding to idiot Booth Operator who's a complete dumbass and knows nothing about sports. How he can root for Philly teams and then root for USC is beyond me. How he thinks getting Roy Halladay makes the Phils "like the eagles" is also beyond me. Booth should be a Cowboys/Mutts fan not a Philly fan.

[SniperSB23]

The Rockies went to the World Series in 2007, improved in the offseason and finished 14 games under .500 the next season. The NL is always so balanced without the elite teams so whoever gets hot down the stretch winds up in the World Series. The Phillies had a chance to completely offset that and become the elite National League team and opted for $15 million and some second rate prospects instead. It's a cheap move, plain and simple. They remain a top contender in the National League but they could have been THE contender.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The Rockies went to the World Series in 2007, improved in the offseason and finished 14 games under .500 the next season. The NL is always so balanced without the elite teams so whoever gets hot down the stretch winds up in the World Series. The Phillies had a chance to completely offset that and become the elite National League team and opted for $15 million and some second rate prospects instead. It's a cheap move, plain and simple. They remain a top contender in the National League but they could have been THE contender.

They will be the preseason favorite for the NL easily. And in the top 3 favs to win the Series out of all of baseball. Any team that goes to back to back WS is an elite team. We have some clutch hitters that love to be in the big spots. That seperates us from other contenders (like the Rockies)

I completely agree that trading Lee was a cheap move and should not have been done. But people keep forgetting that we do have the BEST pitcher in baseball now.

If we kept Lee and none of these trades happened nobody would be down on the Phillies. They made some moves that not only make us better next year but for the next 4 years. They did the right thing getting Halladay. If Lee needed to be sacrificed to get Halladay it was the right move. I really wish they would have man upped and paid Lee his 9 mil. But hey, I'm not going to be as greedy as Yankee fans.

Its not going to be easy to get to a 3rd straight World Series. I'm not sure if its been done with an NL team in the history of baseball.. and if it has it was 50+ years ago. But we are in the right position to make that run.

remember our lineup is still going to be:

Rollins, Polanco, Utley, Howard, Werth, Ibanez, Victorino, Ruiz. Best lineup in baseball. If they were smart they'd put Victorino in the leadoff spot and Rollins in the 7th spot but they have this thing with loyalty that sometimes goes too far (pitching Lidge in the WS).

[Smooth Operator]

Of course they cheaped out, Sniper

It was a bush-league call … like we've come to expect from the ringless 'geniuses' who run the show with the football team.

Spin-maestro losers like Antichrist32 always have a tough time handling the truth...

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

They will be the preseason favorite for the NL easily. And in the top 3 favs to win the Series out of all of baseball. Any team that goes to back to back WS is an elite team. We have some clutch hitters that love to be in the big spots. That seperates us from other contenders (like the Rockies)

I completely agree that trading Lee was a cheap move and should not have been done. But people keep forgetting that we do have the BEST pitcher in baseball now.

If we kept Lee and none of these trades happened nobody would be down on the Phillies. They made some moves that not only make us better next year but for the next 4 years. They did the right thing getting Halladay. If Lee needed to be sacrificed to get Halladay it was the right move. I really wish they would have man upped and paid Lee his 9 mil. But hey, I'm not going to be as greedy as Yankee fans.

Its not going to be easy to get to a 3rd straight World Series. I'm not sure if its been done with an NL team in the history of baseball.. and if it has it was 50+ years ago. But we are in the right position to make that run.

remember our lineup is still going to be:

Rollins, Polanco, Utley, Howard, Werth, Ibanez, Victorino, Ruiz. Best lineup in baseball. If they were smart they'd put Victorino in the leadoff spot and Rollins in the 7th spot but they have this thing with loyalty that sometimes goes too far (pitching Lidge in the WS).

If you gave me the over/under on games played in 2010 with the line set as their games played in 2009 I would bet the under on all of them and make a lot of money. No one stays that healthy two years in a row, especially not when they played additional games in the postseason.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

How the heck are they not better than last year?? Polanco is a upgrade over Feliz and Halladay is a slight upgrade over Lee

Also we need to sign Chan Ho Park and Durbin.. big time.

The bolded isnt necessarily true.

Why would you feel the need to sign Park and Durbin? They are easily replacable.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The bolded isnt necessarily true.

Why would you feel the need to sign Park and Durbin? They are easily replacable.

Polanco is a gold glover who is a better offensive player than feliz.

Halladay is Halladay, though Lee is great too.

Park and Durbin were our two best bullpen guys last year IMO.. especially Park. If we replace them with guys just as good that is okay, though I really want them both signed.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Polanco is a gold glover who is a better offensive player than feliz.

Halladay is Halladay, though Lee is great too.

Park and Durbin were our two best bullpen guys last year IMO.. especially Park. If we replace them with guys just as good that is okay, though I really want them both signed.

Polonco was a gold glove 2nd baseman. And honestly a gold glove is hardly an accurate measure of a players defensive worth versus others at his position. Polanco also is a singles hitter with no power at a power position. Feliz is far from Arod but his defense at third was as good as anyone in the NL and he did have some power. It not only is a lateral move but Polanco is going to be 34, he isnt getting better.

Park and Durbin are barely replacement level guys. They were the 11th and 15th best pitchers on the staff last year using VORP as a measure. They could get younger, cheaper guys to do just as well as those 2.

[Cannon Shell]

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/200...illies_18.html

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I Don't get it. If they had paid Lee the 9 mil, then they had Hamels, Lee, and Halliday possible for the World Series. They were competitive for it all in 2009 with just Lee pitching well. Chances are 2 out of those 3 above starters would be pitching well in the 2010 World Series. That's all they needed. All I can think of is they were concerned about the chemistry going bad (too much expected from them etc.)