Lets hope Halladay is a playoff stud like Lee

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Yes, but the Lee trade to Seattle ended up having no players from that go to Toronto, so they could have got Halladay anyway.

Even if your chances on signing Lee next year are slim, if you wait and trade him during the season at the trading deadline I bet you'd get better prospects... and even if you just lose him next year you still get two draft picks cause he's a type A free agent.

And 9 million gets you Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Happ as your rotation for a whole year and a clear favorite to win the world series.

They Phillies staff said they had to make the trade to fill up their now depleted farm.

Yeah, but if gets hurt or stinks they would be screwed. Also if they were for some reason out of the playoff race (which is most unlikely) then they would be the team getting leveraged. If they were in it, they would simply keep him.
All that being said, with the team that they have I would have kept Lee and went for it. They are built to win now, I'll worry about the future/prospects 2 years from now.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

The reason they didn't get one nice overlapping year with a minimum of 2 allstar starting pitchers is what? , or The rest of the league would like to thank the Philly management.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

The reason they didn't get one nice overlapping year with a minimum of 2 allstar starting pitchers is what? , or The rest of the league would like to thank the Philly management.

99% . The prospects they got back for Lee are not top of the line guys. The fact that Toronto gave them $6 million in the trade makes it even more unforgivable.

Sniper-zero chance lee signs a deal like Halladay did. He is going to want a long term deal with a whole lot more guaranteed money. Halladay's signing for a far below market rate may be the bigest surprise of all.

[Smooth Operator]

Looks like Amaro and Montgomery are developing the same LOSER mentality that the local pro football team with ZERO rings has.


UNBELIEVABLE



REAL Philly sports fans wanted them to find a way to keep you in red and white, Cliff.

Thanks for that STELLAR performance last season.

Good luck, bro…

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Looks like Amaro and Montgomery are developing the same LOSER mentality that the local pro football team with ZERO rings has.


UNBELIEVABLE



REAL Philly sports fans wanted them to find a way to keep you in red and white, Cliff.

Thanks for that STELLAR performance last season.

Good luck, bro…

Don't Fret Smooth dude, at least you still have USC!

Oh Wait.........................

















THUD!

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Looks like Amaro and Montgomery are developing the same LOSER mentality that the local pro football team with ZERO rings has.


UNBELIEVABLE



REAL Philly sports fans wanted them to find a way to keep you in red and white, Cliff.

Thanks for that STELLAR performance last season.

Good luck, bro…

You know what Booth, you really have no clue dont you?

Comparing the Phillies to the Eagles is an insult to everyone in Red. So they traded a guy they werent going to be able to sign and helped rebuild the farm. they also signed THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL for the next FOUR years!!!!

It would have been incredible to keep Lee... the screwed up by givng Moyer a two year contract. **** happens. We have Polanco instead of Feliz. At this very moment we are a slightly BETTER team than last year... oh by the way we won the past two pennants and a world series. and we are better now. Roy Halladay is every teams wet dream and he's a proven AL East Killer.

So while of course all of us fans would have loved to keep Lee.. that means we would NOT have Halladay (they werent going to do the deal without getting some prospects back). and in 2011 Hamels would be our #1 guy and we'd have no Lee or Halladay.

Get a grip.. dont get so tough on the team who is the best in the NL and the favorites to go back to the series the THIRD time in a row!

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

So while of course all of us fans would have loved to keep Lee.. that means we would NOT have Halladay (they werent going to do the deal without getting some prospects back). and in 2011 Hamels would be our #1 guy and we'd have no Lee or Halladay.

What would have prevented the Phillies from signing Halladay as a free agent in 2011?

[Smooth Operator]

Spin this HORRIBLE call any way you want, Antichrist32


When they have a real shot to get two rings in three years … winners GO FOR IT with everything they have!!!

They don't stand around like a couple of little girls worrying about "the future".



UNBELIEVEABLE that they could let this guy go


Khrist, is this Reid-Lurie all over again??????????????????

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

What would have prevented the Phillies from signing Halladay as a free agent in 2011?

would have cost us more $$ then...

come on now. Signing Halladay right now for Drabeck and Taylor was a TERRIFIC move for the Phillies. An absolute steal for the extension also (if 20mill per year can possibly be a steal)

The trade in question is the Lee trade. Obviously the fans wanted it NOT to happen. I dont think Amaro really wanted it to happen but nobody wanted Blanton and we made the mistake with Moyer.

We are still a better team now than we were last year. Halladay is > Lee (though not by too much).

Only in Philly can people complain when they just landed the best pitcher in baseball!

I'm not too upset, excited to have Halladay.. bummed about Lee moving but if he wants to "retire as a Phillie" like he said yesterday he can come take less $ from us next year!

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Yeah, but if gets hurt or stinks they would be screwed. Also if they were for some reason out of the playoff race (which is most unlikely) then they would be the team getting leveraged. If they were in it, they would simply keep him.
All that being said, with the team that they have I would have kept Lee and went for it. They are built to win now, I'll worry about the future/prospects 2 years from now.

You mean as opposed to if that happens with Halladay!!! Halladay gets hit by a bus tomorrow and is in a wheelchair the rest of his life and they are out $60 million plus the buyout for the option. That happens to Cliff Lee and they are out $9 million. You can't justify certain moves on the worst case scenario while ignoring the worst case scenario for other moves.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

You mean as opposed to if that happens with Halladay!!! Halladay gets hit by a bus tomorrow and is in a wheelchair the rest of his life and they are out $60 million plus the buyout for the option. That happens to Cliff Lee and they are out $9 million. You can't justify certain moves on the worst case scenario while ignoring the worst case scenario for other moves.

I was responding soley to the point Aunty made about waiting to the deadline thinking that they would have gotten more for Lee if they traded him then. Also I mentioned that for some reason they stunk they probably would have gotten less for him also, so it wasn't only a look at the worst case scenario.
Personally like I stated I would have rolled the dice and tried to keep them both for this season. Possibly making it back/winning the World Series would offset losing Lee for nothing. They should have went for it.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I was responding soley to the point Aunty made about waiting to the deadline thinking that they would have gotten more for Lee if they traded him then. Also I mentioned that for some reason they stunk they probably would have gotten less for him also, so it wasn't only a look at the worst case scenario.
Personally like I stated I would have rolled the dice and tried to keep them both for this season. Possibly making it back/winning the World Series would offset losing Lee for nothing. They should have went for it.

The main problem is I think the $6 million the Phillies got for Lee is worth far more than the 3 prospects they got from Seattle. If they got Ackley or Saunders it would have been one thing but the three guys they got are not even remotely close to the top 50 prospects in the nation. You don't give up Cliff Lee for that to save $9 million and get another $6 million in cash. That is just a kick in the balls to your season ticket holders. They didn't refuel their minor league system, all they did was put $15 million into their pockets in exchange for giving up World Series favoritism.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The main problem is I think the $6 million the Phillies got for Lee is worth far more than the 3 prospects they got from Seattle. If they got Ackley or Saunders it would have been one thing but the three guys they got are not even remotely close to the top 50 prospects in the nation. You don't give up Cliff Lee for that to save $9 million and get another $6 million in cash. That is just a kick in the balls to your season ticket holders. They didn't refuel their minor league system, all they did was put $15 million into their pockets in exchange for giving up World Series favoritism.

People forget that Halladay can pitch on 3 days rest (go 3 of 7 in a 7 game series) and we have upgraded our 3rd base.

We HAVE to be the favorites to get back to the series, and we are better off now with Halladay.

& the Phils have said all along that they dont want their salary to be above 140mil. They stuck to it. I really cant be upset with this move or this team after the past two years.

As much as I wish they would have kept Lee for one more year.. they did the right thing in getting Halladay.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

People forget that Halladay can pitch on 3 days rest (go 3 of 7 in a 7 game series) and we have upgraded our 3rd base.

We HAVE to be the favorites to get back to the series, and we are better off now with Halladay.

Two question marks, back end of the rotation and Brad Lidge. The Phills are a very talented team, but are they going to have to depend on the two headed monster of Martinez/Moyer to give them clutch innings down the stretch? Also which Brett Myers will show up or will he be back in the pen? Then there is Hamels.......Finally, who will be closing games for them come September? If he is anything like he was in his first season then you should feel pretty confident. If he's like the guy from last year, then you might encounter some real problems.
I think they are a very talented team, but I'm really not sure you can state that they are better right now, then teams that won and went to the series the last 2 seasons.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Two question marks, back end of the rotation and Brad Lidge. The Phills are a very talented team, but are they going to have to depend on the two headed monster of Martinez/Moyer to give them clutch innings down the stretch? Also which Brett Myers will show up or will he be back in the pen? Then there is Hamels.......Finally, who will be closing games for them come September? If he is anything like he was in his first season then you should feel pretty confident. If he's like the guy from last year, then you might encounter some real problems.
I think they are a very talented team, but I'm really not sure you can state that they are better right now, then teams that won and went to the series the last 2 seasons.

How the heck are they not better than last year?? Polanco is a upgrade over Feliz and Halladay is a slight upgrade over Lee. Other than that we are exactly the same.. except our bench is a lot BETTER than last year. (our bench went something like 1/32 in the whole post season last year.. not good)

I expect Happ to be freaking awesome again this year.. (glad they traded Drebeck and not Happ)

the 5th starter and some bullpen guys need to be figured out.

I really wouldnt be surprised to see them make another mid season trade for another starter like they've done the past two years.

Lidge sucked last year and we still ran away with the Pennant. He cant possibly be any worse. And if he sucks just as bad and Manuel puts him in as closer in the Post Season AGAIn than Manuel should be fired.

Hamels also cant possibly be any worse than last year. Amaro is really basing this trade around Hamels being 2008 Hamels. I'm not confident but am hopefull.

Myers is not on this team anymore.

Look to see them pick up a Smoltz type guy and another bullpen pitcher who can close if needed.

Also we need to sign Chan Ho Park and Durbin.. big time.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The main problem is I think the $6 million the Phillies got for Lee is worth far more than the 3 prospects they got from Seattle. If they got Ackley or Saunders it would have been one thing but the three guys they got are not even remotely close to the top 50 prospects in the nation. You don't give up Cliff Lee for that to save $9 million and get another $6 million in cash. That is just a kick in the balls to your season ticket holders. They didn't refuel their minor league system, all they did was put $15 million into their pockets in exchange for giving up World Series favoritism.