Jerry Brown's letter to TDN on HOY discussion

[Smooth Operator]

Read this Brown piece again … and it still makes no sense.

Face it, Jerry … the 3-year-old colts were mediocre, at best, this year … and the sad fact is … some of them are probably better than the older mules she (barely) hung on to beat in the Woodward.

Wasn't exactly like she was getting the best of a Bernardini … or a Mineshaft … out there.


The REAL challenge for the filly was coming out to the coast and taking on the undefeated, Eclipse-award-winning Breeders' Cup champion mare … and she was a NO SHOW.

No one in their right mind could vote for her over Z, in my opinion … but that's the problem … too many of these voters are out of their minds.

Take 2004, for instance … a significant number of them actually cast their ballots for SJ as HotY.

This was pure insanity when you had a brilliant older horse which not only proved that he was the fastest sprinter in the country … but the fastest router, as well.

Even though it cant happen, but i feel Gio Ponti is as good as these two. He is a champ on the Turf and tried to be on the dirt, not his surface. Could there be another horse that we are overlooking or is it a slam dunk between these two. Has either one of these fillies ran on the Turf? Just a thought.

[Roc525]

Originally Posted by arizonadave

Even though it cant happen, but i feel Gio Ponti is as good as these two. He is a champ on the Turf and tried to be on the dirt, not his surface. Could there be another horse that we are overlooking or is it a slam dunk between these two. Has either one of these fillies ran on the Turf? Just a thought.

Gio is a great horse, but he didn't try to do anything on a dirt surface this year.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Roc525

Gio is a great horse, but he didn't try to do anything on a dirt surface this year.

Neither did Zenyatta though.

The comment that made me chuckle the most on this thread is that Rachel will win Horse of the Year and Zenyatta will retire as the "people's horse." Really? Is that why the Breeders Cup Classic got approximately 1/7 the viewers as Rachel's Preakness? Is that why more people saw Rachel win the Kentucky Oaks than the total combined number of people who watched Zenyatta win her five starts?

If you go back to July or August, I guarantee you all the pretty pony people were just as fired up about Rachel Alexandra and girl power as they are about Zenyatta now.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Neither did Zenyatta though.

The comment that made me chuckle the most on this thread is that Rachel will win Horse of the Year and Zenyatta will retire as the "people's horse." Really? Is that why the Breeders Cup Classic got approximately 1/7 the viewers as Rachel's Preakness? Is that why more people saw Rachel win the Kentucky Oaks than the total combined number of people who watched Zenyatta win her five starts?

If you go back to July or August, I guarantee you all the pretty pony people were just as fired up about Rachel Alexandra and girl power as they are about Zenyatta now.

You have to be realistic here. That audience was at least looking to see if Mine that Bird was for real. Not taking anything from Rachel, but the Derby winner (especially 50-1) is going to draw the viewers.

[slotdirt]

You shouldn't be in or around this game if a 19 length win is a snoozefest. I'd hate to see what Revidere would have thought about Secretariat's snoozefest in the 1973 Belmont or Spectacular Bid's Woodward walkover snoozefest in 1979.

Originally Posted by Roc525

Gio is a great horse, but he didn't try to do anything on a dirt surface this year.

i know i am thinking outside the box with this, but Gio Ponti ran 7 times this year and 6 were grade 1 races and won 4 of them. He ran at Belmont,Arlington and Santa Anita. He ran on soft,good,firm and yielding surfaces. true his main surface is turf,but does that make him any worse than both fillies who run on a different surface. havent seen either filly run on the turf, so does the surface really matter. i know i am in the minority, but i will always put my $$$ on this tallented 4year old. he just runs and gave Zenyatta, on a surface that isnt his best, a run for the money.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by arizonadave

i know i am thinking outside the box with this, but Gio Ponti ran 7 times this year and 6 were grade 1 races and won 4 of them. He ran at Belmont,Arlington and Santa Anita. He ran on soft,good,firm and yielding surfaces. true his main surface is turf,but does that make him any worse than both fillies who run on a different surface. havent seen either filly run on the turf, so does the surface really matter. i know i am in the minority, but i will always put my $$$ on this tallented 4year old. he just runs and gave Zenyatta, on a surface that isnt his best, a run for the money.

I don't understand why Zenyatta supporters are not understanding this....but it's the same logic as saying Zenyatta should be HOY.

Gio Ponti accomplished a lot on his surface as Zenyatta accomplished a lot on her own surface. So if people are going to hype Zenyatta for HOY, Gio Ponti arguably had the harder campaign.

Personally, I believe HOTY in America has always had first preference for whoever the dirt champion is (if there is a clear cut one). RA was the clear cut dirt champion. She deserves it.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Read this Brown piece again … and it still makes no sense.

Face it, Jerry … the 3-year-old colts were mediocre, at best, this year … and the sad fact is … some of them are probably better than the older mules she (barely) hung on to beat in the Woodward.

Wasn't exactly like she was getting the best of a Bernardini … or a Mineshaft … out there.


The REAL challenge for the filly was coming out to the coast and taking on the undefeated, Eclipse-award-winning Breeders' Cup champion mare … and she was a NO SHOW.

No one in their right mind could vote for her over Z, in my opinion … but that's the problem … too many of these voters are out of their minds.

Take 2004, for instance … a significant number of them actually cast their ballots for SJ as HotY.

This was pure insanity when you had a brilliant older horse which not only proved that he was the fastest sprinter in the country … but the fastest router, as well.

......look, you are dead on. R/A did have the better year...so she is prob. horse of the year. is she better than ZEN? please....R.A barely beat MINE THAT BIRD and MACHO A. ZEN. would blow by both of those like they were anchored to the 16th pole. any surface, just look at the grade 1 at oaklawn.....REAL dirt. same result.

[slotdirt]

Does Zenyatta really "blow" by anyone? Her running style almost guarantees you that she'll never really win a race by open lengths.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

......look, you are dead on. R/A did have the better year...so she is prob. horse of the year. is she better than ZEN? please....R.A barely beat MINE THAT BIRD and MACHO A. ZEN. would blow by both of those like they were anchored to the 16th pole. any surface, just look at the grade 1 at oaklawn.....REAL dirt. same result.

Do you wager with the same disregard for race dynamics? If not, please start.

NT

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Do you wager with the same disregard for race dynamics? If not, please start.

NT

Don't even engage, a know it all that knows absolutely nothing

[alysheba4]

you gotta let it go. i hope R.A. gets H.O.Y. i want you to be able to sleep well at night.......its not worth the stress man.

[Roc525]

The fact of the matter is, is that if you took away all the names and laid out only the two campaigns side by side, and then asked people to vote on which campaign was better or more impressive for the year, in the end the voting wouldn't be close.

The cards revealing the horses names would be revealed and Rachel would win in a landslide. If only it were that easy.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

......look, you are dead on. R/A did have the better year...so she is prob. horse of the year. is she better than ZEN? please....R.A barely beat MINE THAT BIRD and MACHO A. ZEN. would blow by both of those like they were anchored to the 16th pole. any surface, just look at the grade 1 at oaklawn.....REAL dirt. same result.

i agree totally, RA had a better schedule and is HOY hands down. her resume for the year is better than zenyattas, especially for the fans. the thing i disagree with is this guy saying shes faster. zenyatta beats them in stride and she seems to run forever. i think she wins that woodward EASILY if they were smart enough to go to saratoga. thats the problem, lack of vision by the connections of zenyatta. she could of won any grade one in the east and that would of won it, if not the woodward the jockey gold cup was there for the taking. heck , they could of even won the pacific classic or the goodwoood. but, they played it safe. i think zenyatta can beat Rachel and at 10 furlongs, i know she can. when they finally put zenyatta in top company she laughed at them, meanwhile, like you said rachel was, after all, life and death against macho again, who is alright, but hes no where near the horses that zenyatta totally destroyed. zenyattas probably a better horse but she did not capture the fans or make the campaign that rachel did.

[JerseyJ]

Hey Smooth Toolshederator, I would say 3YO colts such as Summer Bird, Quality Road, and others were certainly as good as if not better than the pumpkins that Zenyatta has been beating up on. What race of any signifigance did Zenyatta win other than the Breeders Cup Turf Classic?
You just never learn do you. You say that Zenyatta would whip Rachel Alexandra on dirt at Churchill...kinda like USC would whip everyone this year? The both of them share one thing, they are both paper tigers.

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Read this Brown piece again … and it still makes no sense.

Face it, Jerry … the 3-year-old colts were mediocre, at best, this year … and the sad fact is … some of them are probably better than the older mules she (barely) hung on to beat in the Woodward.

Wasn't exactly like she was getting the best of a Bernardini … or a Mineshaft … out there.


The REAL challenge for the filly was coming out to the coast and taking on the undefeated, Eclipse-award-winning Breeders' Cup champion mare … and she was a NO SHOW.

No one in their right mind could vote for her over Z, in my opinion … but that's the problem … too many of these voters are out of their minds.

Take 2004, for instance … a significant number of them actually cast their ballots for SJ as HotY.

This was pure insanity when you had a brilliant older horse which not only proved that he was the fastest sprinter in the country … but the fastest router, as well.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

We'll have the 1st legitimate female HOY of this century.

Azeri was legit. There wasn't an alternative that year. The 3yo's that had a shot really didn't show up on the biggest days and the older horses were pretty dreadful.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

In your opinion, was Azeri better than all of those dreadful older horses that year ?

As far as what, who had a better year? Thats the question right, not who was better per say, but who had a better year?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

In your opinion, was Azeri better than all of those dreadful older horses that year ?

Undoubtedly yes. Street Cry, Lido Palace, and Left Bank were all very good but get "incompletes". I was a big fan of Street Cry- he won the Dubai World Cup and the Stephen Foster that year, and had a chance to win HOY, but finished a mediocre 3rd in the Whitney. Left Bank beat him, and won Older Male, but he only ran 4 times with three wins (Bold Ruler, Tom Fool, and Whitney) and got buried in the Met Mile. I think that says a lot. Nobody really stepped forward and earned it. Milwaukee Brew didn't even make the ballot and I thought he deserved at least a chance, he won the SAH & Californian, and finished 3rd in the Pac Classic and BCC.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

So she was undoubtedly better.........but won HOY by default ?

OK.

Is this some kind of trick question???

She's the only female to win HOY while never facing the boys. She was definitely the best horse in America in 2002, regardless of sex, but could have easily lost the HOY vote if one of the males had done just a little more. If you haven't noticed... it's VERY hard for fillies/mares to win HOY. Not only do they have to be outstanding, but every male category has to be mediocre. This year is an exception because bar none, the two best horses in America are both female.