Who Is Horse Of The Year?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Even more odd, what does it say about those of us who appreciate both?

I wish the Eclipse vote was tomorrow.

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You have to admit, you openly questioned whether she was better than Summer Bird even after she destroyed him in the Haskell. You've constantly nit-picked her campaign and went so far as to say her resume should be downgraded a tad because she didn't run in the Derby for her prior connections.

It's one thing to think she's the definitive pick for HOTY, it's another to think Zenyatta is, but both of their accomplishments speak for themselves. I think it's a little too convenient for you, or anyone else who engages in it, to question why Rachel ran in the Preakness rather than Belmont and the Woodward rather than Travers but just assume that Zenyatta gets a pass on the joke of a schedule she had because she won the Classic.

NT

I've always maintained what RA had accomplished up until Sept 5 was HOY worthy, my beef if you can call it a beef is I only wish she had raced the entire year where most horses are primed for a championship run, or more precisely in the JCGC or the BC. Up until that point she was the deserved choice for HOY barring a performance that could supercede her resume later in the yr. This is the chance her connections took when you call it a year with almost 4 months left on the racing calendar, well to be more accurate 3 months and 3 weeks, I don't see the hate in this thinking, I saw that performance from Zenyatta last Saturday and she would be my vote not only because I believe she would have beaten RA(yeah I know we will never know, but she didn't run for whatever reasons you want to believe) in the Classic had she run but the way in which she won the race, which was very decisive.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by CSC

I've always maintained what RA had accomplished up until Sept 5 was HOY worthy, my beef if you can call it a beef is I only wish she had raced the entire year where most horses are primed for a championship run, or more precisely in the JCGC or the BC. Up until that point she was the deserved choice for HOY barring a performance that would supercede later in the yr. This is the chance her connections took when you call it a year with almost 4 months left on the racing calendar, well to be more accurate 3 months and 3 weeks, I don't see the hate in this thinking, I saw that performance from Zenyatta and she would be my vote not only because I believe she would have beaten RA in the Classic had she run but the way in which she won the race, which was decisive.

Rachel started in January, Zenyatta started in... you can't hold it against Rachel.

Also, assuming who would beat who is weak when you're talking about recognizing results. It's not the "Horse of the Year If X Would Have Happened."

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Rachel started in January, Zenyatta started in... you can't hold it against Rachel.

Also, assuming who would beat who is weak when you're talking about recognizing results. It's not the "Horse of the Year If X Would Have Happened."

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

Have you applied the same scrutiny to Zenyatta's schedule?

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Have you applied the same scrutiny to Zenyatta's schedule?

NT

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

she ran 8 very hard races all year and the trainer even said she was spent after the Woodward and needed a break. Why do you choose to ignore that?

How many times has SB ran this year?

How about Zenyatta?

You will find 8 is a pretty solid number of races and also the year starts on Jan 1st, not on Sept 5th.

[parsixfarms]

Here's Ghostzapper's 4-race Horse of the Year campaign in 2004, which started in July:


Breeders' Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I, 1 1/4 miles in 1:59.02, NTR, equal top weight, by 3, defeating Roses in May, Pleasantly Perfect, Perfect Drift, Azeri, Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, Fantasticat, Funny Cide, Bowman's Band, Newfoundland, Freefourinternet).

Woodward S (gr. I, 1 1/8 miles, defeating Saint Liam, Bowman's Band, Seek Gold, Newfoundland, Midway Road, Presidentialaffair).

Tom Fool H (gr. II, 7 furlongs, top-weighted, by 41/4, defeating Aggadan, Unforgettable Max, Lion Tamer).

Philip H. Iselin Breeders' Cup H (gr. III, 1 1/8 miles, top-weighted, by 103/4, defeating Presidentialaffair, Zoffinger, Private Lap).


In 2004, Saint Liam was not an "established" horse, and the fields for the Tom Fool and Iselin were really weak. Considering the fact that she's a female, is Zenyatta's campaign substantively less?

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

So had she raced once in the months of May, June, August, October and November that would make her more eligible in your mind?

[knickslions2]

Wow presently 52 votes for each. How I wish they could have raced each other

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

WHO CARES?

That would be an issue if she didn't run but once or twice all season. She danced many of the major dances and they happened to be dances that female horses seldom, if ever, and in one case, never had done victoriously. That is a campaign of epic proportions.

Does this really boil down to Rachel potentially having been in the JCGC setting the same ridiculously slow pace that Tizway and QR did over a quagmire of a track and beating up on your boy Summer Bird again? If so then you're grasping at straws as to why she's not the HOY.

This has nothing to do with Zenyatta needing to ship east as some have alluded to here. It has to do with what races she ran in when in her cozy home state. By the time Zenyatta ran in the Clement Hirsch Rachel had already done memorable things. At that point her connections needed to try the Pacific Classic or a similar race against males.

NT

[randallscott35]

Hopefully:

--The fact that Assmussen is the trainer and Jackson is the owner won't affect the vote

--There is no doubt that there are people who dislike the connections of Rachel and like the connections of Zenyatta

--In a close vote, that could make the difference...How sad.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

WHO CARES?

That would be an issue if she didn't run but once or twice all season. She danced many of the major dances and they happened to be dances that female horses seldom, if ever, and in one case, never had done victoriously. That is a campaign of epic proportions.

Does this really boil down to Rachel potentially having been in the JCGC setting the same ridiculously slow pace that Tizway and QR did over a quagmire of a track and beating up on your boy Summer Bird again? If so then you're grasping at straws as to why she's not the HOY.

This has nothing to do with Zenyatta needing to ship east as some have alluded to here. It has to do with what races she ran in when in her cozy home state. By the time Zenyatta ran in the Clement Hirsch Rachel had already done memorable things. At that point her connections needed to try the Pacific Classic or a similar race against males.

NT

Like it or not, it could cost her the award, given what Zenyatta did and the recency of it.

Not the same thing but I will mention it anyways...Empire Maker lost the Eclipse Awrd to Funny Cide in 2003, most likely because he only ran once after his Belmon Stakes victory over Funny Cide and it wasnt a win. It was a 2nd in a really weak Jim Dandy field. I think Strong Hope won that race?

Anyways, recency and races in the 2nd half of the year play a huge part in votes. Look no further than the mighty Miesques Approval!

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm sure many do care, if Zenyatta never ran a lick Sat, this would be a moot conversation.

NT

Somehow this always comes back to Summer Bird and my motives, why can't you believe me when I say I truly 100% believe that up until Zenyatta crossed the finish line Sat, I would have agreed with all that RA was HOY.

It's this simple I believe Zenyatta was far more impressive in her defining race than RA was in the Woodward her defining race. That to me is enough to give her the nod for HOY. Maybe one should define what HOY means, to me somewhere in that equation there should be a disclaimer that states who the better horse is and from what I saw, one was all out to hold off a mediocre to good horse like Macho Again to another flicking off the best males in training with easy disdain there is no question to me who I think is a better horse and that to me supercedes what happened in 2009 up until this point.

P.S Just a clarification, this is less about winning the Classic than in which the way she did it, losing a pace threat 1 min before the race, coming from dead last with a less then spectacular start, and closing into an average pace against the best males in training and winning with much left in reserve. She is a very worthy choice for HOY when one examines just what she did Saturday in addition to preserving her unblemished career.

[goodcopy]

Zennatta Step up and race against the best in the world!
She beat grd.1 or grp.1 horses from 6 or 7 country's!
She's undeafeated and 14 for 14!
Rachel had the chance to run against the boy's in the derby and chose the Oaks,She didn't run in the travers and no matter the surfase she chose not to run at the Breeders cup!

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by goodcopy

Zennatta Step up and race against the best in the world!
She beat grd.1 or grp.1 horses from 6 or 7 country's!
She's undeafeated and 14 for 14!
Rachel had the chance to run against the boy's in the derby and chose the Oaks,She didn't run in the travers and no matter the surfase she chose not to run at the Breeders cup!

Didnt somebody make this same idiotic comment yesterday?? Can we say TROLL!!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by goodcopy

Zennatta Step up and race against the best in the world!
She beat grd.1 or grp.1 horses from 6 or 7 country's!
She's undeafeated and 14 for 14!
Rachel had the chance to run against the boy's in the derby and chose the Oaks,She didn't run in the travers and no matter the surfase she chose not to run at the Breeders cup!

lol
she ran vs colts three different times. but she still gets grief for what she didn't do. hilarious.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

They don't like SoCal and/or Synthetic. Just vote, and forget this effort. One horse is drawing away (with gusto) in one of the 2 biggest purse races in the world. She showed up on the biggest stage, and romped. Simply fkn romped, and still what do you hear? "She didn't do enough." Neither did anything wrong, but R.A. didn't even run in the biggest race for 3 year olds this year( K Derby.) She's a 3 year old. If you want to match up with Zenyata, then you should at least have won the biggest race for a 3 year old, or won this race that Zenyata showed up for. Zenyata won the biggest race she could of been in this year. She's the only filly or mare to win this race. Hasn't ever been done (in the 25 year history.) Winning Colors won the Derby. R.A. didn't even run in it. She won a Triple Crown race. Then, she ducked both the Belmont and BC Classic. Hey, if you want to ignore the mare that accomplished the biggest feat (for her sex) in 25 years of horseracing, then you go right ahead. Surely, R.A. winning those other races was more important to ya. At some point, doing something your sex hasn't come close to doing in 25 years should get a little respect.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They don't like SoCal and/or Synthetic. Just vote, and forget this effort. One horse is drawing away (with gusto) in one of the 2 biggest purse races in the world. She showed up on the biggest stage, and romped. Simply fkn romped, and still what do you hear? "She didn't do enough." Neither did anything wrong, but R.A. didn't even run in the biggest race for 3 year olds this year( K Derby.) She's a 3 year old. If you want to match up with Zenyata, then you should at least have won the biggest race for a 3 year old, or won this race that Zenyata showed up for. Zenyata won the biggest race she could of been in this year. She's the only filly or mare to win this race. Hasn't ever been done (in the 25 year history.) Winning Colors won the Derby. R.A. didn't even run in it. She won a Triple Crown race. Then, she ducked both the Belmont and BC Classic. Hey, if you want to ignore the mare that accomplished the biggest feat (for her sex) in 25 years of horseracing, then you go right ahead. Surely, R.A. winning those other races was more important to ya.

Where were you? You do live in LA?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They don't like SoCal and/or Synthetic. Just vote, and forget this effort. One horse is drawing away (with gusto) in one of the 2 biggest purse races in the world. She showed up on the biggest stage, and romped. Simply fkn romped, and still what do you hear? "She didn't do enough." Neither did anything wrong, but R.A. didn't even run in the biggest race for 3 year olds this year( K Derby.) She's a 3 year old. If you want to match up with Zenyata, then you should at least have won the biggest race for a 3 year old, or won this race that Zenyata showed up for. Zenyata won the biggest race she could of been in this year. She's the only filly or mare to win this race. Hasn't ever been done (in the 25 year history.) Winning Colors won the Derby. R.A. didn't even run in it. She won a Triple Crown race. Then, she ducked both the Belmont and BC Classic. Hey, if you want to ignore the mare that accomplished the biggest feat (for her sex) in 25 years of horseracing, then you go right ahead. Surely, R.A. winning those other races was more important to ya. At some point, doing something your sex hasn't come close to doing in 25 years should get a little respect.

Scuds= just another Cal bred who can't separate one race from a campaign.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They don't like SoCal and/or Synthetic. Just vote, and forget this effort. One horse is drawing away (with gusto) in one of the 2 biggest purse races in the world. She showed up on the biggest stage, and romped. Simply fkn romped, and still what do you hear? "She didn't do enough." Neither did anything wrong, but R.A. didn't even run in the biggest race for 3 year olds this year( K Derby.) She's a 3 year old. If you want to match up with Zenyata, then you should at least have won the biggest race for a 3 year old, or won this race that Zenyata showed up for. Zenyata won the biggest race she could of been in this year. She's the only filly or mare to win this race. Hasn't ever been done (in the 25 year history.) Winning Colors won the Derby. R.A. didn't even run in it. She won a Triple Crown race. Then, she ducked both the Belmont and BC Classic. Hey, if you want to ignore the mare that accomplished the biggest feat (for her sex) in 25 years of horseracing, then you go right ahead. Surely, R.A. winning those other races was more important to ya. At some point, doing something your sex hasn't come close to doing in 25 years should get a little respect.

I would also add this, they are great conspiracists, a very defensive bunch these RA fans are, try not to hurt their feelings too much Scuds, we know who delivered on the biggest day of racing.