Top 5 best two-surface horses of the last 20 years

Indian Charlie · #1 10-21-2009, 10:04 AM

Gentlemen is an absolute top 5 for this one.

When he was on his game (Gentlemen), perhaps Candy Ride would be the only one on this list that might have been better, on either surface.

I'd have said Greinton too, but he was a little outside of your twenty year time frame.

I can't wait for someone to make a case here for Zenyatta.

Indian Charlie · #2 10-21-2009, 10:05 AM

I should have said DM as well as possibly better than Gentlemen, along with CR.

The Indomitable DrugS · #3 10-21-2009, 10:16 AM

Gentlemen's likely in the bottom half of my top 10 or top half of my 11 to 15. It would require too much analytical thinking for me to place him off the top of my head.

He was a super dirt horse ... imagine if he was around in Curlin's time?

His flop as the 2/5 favorite in Atto Mile hurts him though .. even though it was followed by a layoff and was basically a downward turning point in his career.

CSC · #4 10-21-2009, 10:22 AM

Off the top of my head 3 worth discussing Chester House, Dance Smartly and War Chant all showed a proficiency for both surfaces.

King Glorious · #5 10-21-2009, 10:27 AM

What do you say about Prized, who defeated Sunday Silence on the dirt then won the BC Turf in his grass debut?

Other top ones that come to mind for me include Arazi, Dayjur, Sheikh Albadou, and Raven's Pass.

Antitrust32 · #6 10-21-2009, 10:37 AM

Barbaro should Definately be on this list even if his career didnt last long.

CSC · #7 10-21-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Barbaro should Definately be on this list even if his career didnt last long.

Considering how short his career was, definitely.

The Indomitable DrugS · #8 10-21-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Barbaro should Definately be on this list even if his career didnt last long.

He'd have a much better chance than Peace Rules or Big Brown for a top 20.

Absolutely no way top 5 though. He buried an extremely sucky Derby field, and had narrow wins over the ultra sucky Great Point and Sharp Humor .. those were his 3 dirt wins.

His turf wins were great .. but they came as a 2yo when turf racing isn't even a thought.

The Indomitable DrugS · #9 10-21-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

What do you say about Prized, who defeated Sunday Silence on the dirt then won the BC Turf in his grass debut?

Other top ones that come to mind for me include Arazi, Dayjur, Sheikh Albadou, and Raven's Pass.

The big wins from Prized came in '89 .. but yeah, excellent on both surfaces.

The Indomitable DrugS · #10 10-21-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Off the top of my head 3 worth discussing Chester House, Dance Smartly and War Chant all showed a proficiency for both surfaces.

Chester House made four career starts on dirt and was never 1st or 2nd. Even losing to Lager at AQU. Not a great turf horse either - though he had a race or two for sure.

War Chant's biggest win on dirt was a narrow win over Archer City Slew in the San Rafeal. He beat Road to Slew in his first turf win - and won a 4 way blanket finish in his BC Mile win.

I think War Chant's dam Hollywood Wildcat is FAR more deserving. She was a beast on turf - and owns a Breeders Cup Distaff win on dirt.

I loved Dance Smartly - but her turf races weren't that impressive.

Affirmed Success is an American based horse who could make a top 20.

Balto Star beat The Tin Man on turf in the United Nations and Mineshaft on dirt in the year Mineshaft won the HOY. He was a super 3yo during the KY derby prep season. He could possibly weasel into a top 20 list.

Antitrust32 · #11 10-21-2009, 10:39 AM

along with barbaro, i think Peace Rules was okay on both surfaces.

CSC · #12 10-21-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I loved Dance Smartly - but her turf races weren't that impressive.

I think DS is one of the most underrated horses of this era despite making the HOF, understandably perhaps because alot of race goers just didn't have a chance to see her best races which came in Canada, but thankfully her races are now readily available on youtube for everyone to see if they are interested. Her Breeders stakes turf race was a superb effort in her 3 yr old season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypzZ9...eature=related

Unfortunately she suffered an injury prior to her 4 yr old and she wasn't the same horse after that, still she managed a good 3rd in the Bev D. I wish she had run a few more times in America in her 3 yr old season to see where she stood to the other great fillies. Perhaps this would have given her the recognition she truly deserved.

cakes44 · #13 10-21-2009, 11:00 AM

How far down the list would Electrocutionist be?

richard · #14 10-21-2009, 11:00 AM

Affirmed Success jumps out at me . A great one .

Indian Charlie · #15 10-21-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Gentlemen's likely in the bottom half of my top 10 or top half of my 11 to 15. It would require too much analytical thinking for me to place him off the top of my head.

He was a super dirt horse ... imagine if he was around in Curlin's time?

His flop as the 2/5 favorite in Atto Mile hurts him though .. even though it was followed by a layoff and was basically a downward turning point in his career.

That was over a good turf course, so who knows. Combined with his downward form from that point, I'd say that race was a toss.

How about his turf stakes debut in Argentina, in which he ran 132.3?

Or his Citation win: 24 for the 1/4, 47.3 for the half, 110.3 for 3/4, and amazing 133.3 for the mile and a final time of 145.2 for 9f.

If I remember correctly, his one try over an off turf in Argentina was abysmal.

If you toss his 2 wet turf races, he has a turf record of 5 wins and a second in 6 starts, with that lone loss coming in his debut.